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1 Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:18 am

gypsy


Moderator
The 2000 presidential election was an historic, unprecedented moment in U.S. history — a virtual tie on election night followed by 36 days of limbo, ballot recounts in Florida and ultimately a Supreme Court decision to declare a winner.

It was a mess for the country and also for the major news organizations who create complex mathematical models to match vote results and exit polls to determine the inevitable winner. But in 2000, the result was anything but inevitable. Each of the three television networks incorrectly declared Al Gore the winner of Florida initially, only to withdraw that decision, later giving the state to George W. Bush — and finally withdrawing that decision as well.

"We managed to make two mistakes that night like everyone else did, but it was shocking," said David Westin, who was president of ABC News on that historic night.

In his new memoir, "Exit Interview," Westin explains, "We believed that our 'decision desk' was better than anybody, and that we got it right every single time and we got it right earlier than just about anybody did."

Westin said the election night fumbles led to a series of changes at ABC News and the other networks. The network increased the margin of error for polls, began paying more attention to absentee ballots, and, says Westin, "repopulated the decision desk."

But are all protections in place to protect against incorrect projections in tight races? Fast forward 12 years, to Wisconsin's recall election last week, in which networks and cable channels reported raw exit poll numbers showing the race between Governor Scott Walker and Tom Barrett would be a very close, 50-50 race. Those candidates ultimately were divided by a much larger, seven-point margin.

And with polls showing President Obama and Mitt Romney in a tight race across key battleground states, could the Florida fiasco of 2000 happen again?

news.yahoo.com/blogs/.../could-bush-gore-election-nigh

ws.search.yahoo.com/search/news?p=bush-gore+election+night&ei=UTF-8&fr=chrf-ytbm&fr2=newsdd

www.play.tm/wire/6551453/could-bush-gore-election-night.

Pray this does not happen again in Florida, exactly what scott wants to do..

2 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:41 pm

SSC


Admin
How strange Florida's courts are blocking the purge of illegal voters from the registration lists, wonder what party this will benefit in the long run.

3 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:07 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
SSC wrote:How strange Florida's courts are blocking the purge of illegal voters from the registration lists, wonder what party this will benefit in the long run.
My guess is the majority of illegal voters would vote for whoever is on the democratic ticket. They always seem to go democrat. Probably because they feel they stand a better chance of getting something for nothing from the democrats. The democrats are notorious for catering to poor people and wanting to give them free benefits in the name of "humanity".

I don't know why Florida's courts are blocking the purge of illegal voters, first I heard of it.

4 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:42 pm

gypsy


Moderator
it has nothing to do with illegal voters .illegals can't vote, the republicans are fussing because they want to make it hard for minorities to vote ,so they can control the election.

5 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:51 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
If illegal citizens were able to obtain or 'forge' an illegal fake social security card and a fake voters registration card they could in effect make an illegal vote. The vote would be tallied into the overall voting count, and consequently have an effect of the next election. Its safe to suggest if this happens or has already happened, president Obama should not be in the white house as we speak.

Although I don't think Obama or any other president for that matter, has ever been elected because of the illegal votes received from illegal aliens. I don't think enough of them in any particular state has obtained the necessary resources to make a vote to have any effect on the outcome. Most of them don't care enough to vote.

6 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:17 pm

gypsy


Moderator
I work on voting procedure in Kentucky,no illegals will be voting,unless theY have proper id ,social security NUMBER, and drivers license,I don't think illegals would want to chance being caught, so that is not a problem as far as I can see.in Kentucky or anywhere, this is just another republican myth and fear mongering.

7 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:22 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
Why do Republicans think illegal votes would favor Democrats?

Why do you think the Republicans are fear mongering and the Democrats are not?

8 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:29 pm

gypsy


Moderator
Because Democrats are for the people,republicans aren't,.. most people will vote for the ones who work for and with the people.go back through the last four yeaRS AND LOOK UP THE FEAR MONGERING THAT WAS PUT OUT about Obama and they are still doing it, why won't the republicans in congress work with our president to benefit the people and this country, they sure didn't help it when they controlled the presidency and the congress for 8years!

9 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:53 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
gypsy wrote:why won't the republicans in congress work with our president to benefit the people and this country, they sure didn't help it when they controlled the presidency and the congress for 8years!
Because the big wealthy business interests control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the illusion that you have freedom of choice. You don’t. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls. They got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear.

They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying. Lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want. They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting screwed by a system that threw them overboard 30 freakin’ years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly crappier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your freakin' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you sooner or later 'cause they own this freakin' place. It’s a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted, the game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good, honest, hard-working people, white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good, honest, hard-working people continue to elect these rich bloodsuckers who don’t give a crap about them. They don’t give a crap about you. And nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. That’s what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue flag that’s being jammed up their butts every day, because the owners of this country know the truth. It’s called the American Dream, 'cause you have to be asleep to believe it.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Carlin

10 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:16 pm

SSC


Admin
Amen Tyler, that was an amazing post and so very true. When you have dead people voting, illegals who paid $150.00 for a fake green card and SS# and they feel Obama is afraid of bucking the Latino voters they will come to the polls in droves. He is kissing illegal ass all over the country and at who's expense ? OURs. We pay the dead beat bill. Every Senator has a motive, whether it be a pork laden bill or a special favor within his or her state and with no back bone in the White House only a hot check writing fool who has let China own us we are screwed. Medical care is going off the charts, medicines are being disallowed from coverage, life saving devices are being denied and it will only get worse. We have bullshit like Holder, a lunatic like Bloomberg, joken Joe who can't walk and talk at the same time and then Obama who is a one man train wreck. Illegals flocking in to have anchor babies, states giving illegals scholarships to college, then the huge incentives to foreign investors to come buy up businesses and run the Americans out of business, all the while chocking the oil and gas production in our own country. Obama would rather make his foreign buddies rich than provide jobs in the US. The housing market in the sewer, that fancy home you own isn't worth half any more. A hand full of states trying to do the right thing on immigration and what happens , Holder and his band of corrupt idiots block every thing. It just doesn't stop with Holder, this blatant disregard for LAWS goes all the way to the top and why ? A simple four letter word.votes. It isn't about jobs they give a shit less if the middle and lower class ever works, it is about votes, and spending this country into bankrupt and we are getting there fast.

11 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:49 pm

SSC


Admin
Rubio: Florida Illegal Voter Purge Not Targeting Hispanics
Wednesday, 13 Jun 2012 10:59 PM
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/rubio-florida-voter-purge/2012/06/13/id/442259
Florida Sen. Marco Rubio – considered near the top of Mitt Romney’s vice presidential short list – took a stand on Florida Gov. Rick Scott’s effort to purge the voting rolls of illegal voters, saying that he doesn’t view it as an effort to target minorities.

Scott’s effort has sparked a Department of Justice lawsuit and complaints that Hispanic voters are getting targeted.

"I wouldn't characterize it as an effort to purge Latinos from the voting rolls," Rubio told a group of reporters at a Bloomberg News-hosted breakfast in Washington. His comments were reported in Politico.


"I would characterize it as twofold. No. 1 is, I think there's the goal of ensuring that everyone who votes in Florida is qualified to vote. If you're not a citizen of the United States, you shouldn't be voting. That's the law. And, I mean — I mean, what's the counter to that, that we're willing to tolerate 100 illegal voters on our rolls? So I do think that — I mean, why — how could anyone argue against a state identifying people who are not rightfully on the voter rolls and removing them from the voter rolls? They shouldn't be voting."

Rubio also said it’s a “debate about tactics. And I'm not familiar with all of the intricacies of how the program is being implemented. And if there's a better way to implement a way of identifying voters that don't belong on the — on the rolls in a way that's not disruptive and so forth, you know, I think we should consider that.

“But the goal of purging voters from the rolls that are not qualified to vote, I mean, I don't — I just don't understand. What is the argument in favor of leaving people on the rolls that aren't qualified to vote in the United States? We know of at least 100 people in Florida — and that — they just began the process."

"And so, you know, I just don't think that's the choice. I don't think an order not to kick off a single legal voter we have to somehow tolerate the existence of 100, 200 or even five illegal voters. I just don't think that's a valid choice," he said.



But Rubio did add that the proximity to the election, combined with this being a presidential year, has made the issue hypercharged politically.




Read more on Newsmax.com: Rubio: Florida Illegal Voter Purge Not Targeting Hispanics

12 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:33 pm

gypsy


Moderator
I said also I believe only American citizens get to vote,I also will state again unless you have legal proof of your id, drivers license, you do not vote in Presidential Election. in this state Illegals don't vote,and I believe it is that way in most states,..until there is proof that they do, then I will stand by my remark..

13 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:42 pm

SSC


Admin
once again Gypsy for $150.00 they buy a fake green card and SS# this is all that is needed to get a voters card, drivers license and a job with a company that checks out Id's, it happens every day in every state, your statement no illegal will vote unless they have the proper ID says it right there, they obtain the ID and do vote and are still illegal. Simple to figure out.

14 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:45 pm

gypsy


Moderator
can you prove this?

15 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:50 pm

SSC


Admin
I have on another thread already posted a whole article about the ability of illegals being able to purchase fake ID you argued it was impossible, it was an example in California on how easily it was done. Go hunt the article that I posted.

16 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:52 pm

gypsy


Moderator
I haven't a clue that the article is true,I will have to have more than an article to believe it..plus I don't care to go searching for your article.

17 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:58 pm

SSC


Admin
Oh well, you felt the need to argue it at the time. How do we know any article is true ???

18 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:00 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
gypsy wrote:can you prove this?
Oh come on now gypsy you have to know illegal things like this happen. Its not impossible, nothings impossible when it comes to cheating systems. Look at how people get into banks with computers and transfer money to other accounts. Its a corrupt world and there are people doing it right now. Creating SS cards and voting cards is not an impossibility when you consider the other things people do. Its in the news about people getting fake ss cards. You know this to be true. You can't use the fact that is illegal and wrong as your logic that it doesn't happen.



Last edited by runawayhorses on Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

19 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:01 pm

gypsy


Moderator
SSC wrote:Oh well, you felt the need to argue it at the time. How do we know any article is true ???
haha now that I can agree on Salute!! SSC

20 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:12 pm

gypsy


Moderator
Of course things can be forged,and illegal things do go on, I am not disputing this, but they are making a mountain out of a mole hill on this illegal voting, if anything is fraudulent it is how Florida,Ohio and Indiana ,Wisconsin, has handled voting in the past. now that needs investigated, also.

21 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:13 pm

SSC


Admin
Overseas forgers' fake IDs can fool even the experts
By John McAuliff, USA TODAYUpdated 3d 22h ago
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-08/overseas-fake-ids-fool-experts/55479636/1

Not even fake IDs are made in America anymore.



Today's fake IDs have attained a level of sophistication that can fool even the most-trained eye.
Sponsored LinksOverseas forgers from as far away as China are shipping fake driver's license and other IDs to the United States that can bypass even the newest electronic digital security systems, according to document security experts.

The new IDs are "an affront to the very sovereignty and dignity of the states that issue them," says David Huff, a senior special agent in enforcement for Virginia's Department of Alcohol and Beverage Control, which has investigated some of the frauds.

Most troubling to authorities is the sophistication of the forgeries: Digital holograms are replicated, PVC plastic identical to that found in credit cards is used, and ink appearing only under ultraviolet light is stamped onto the cards.

Each of those manufacturing methods helps the IDs defeat security measures aimed at identifying forged documents.

The overseas forgers are bold enough to sell their wares on websites, USA TODAY research finds. Anyone with an Internet connection and $75 to $200 can order their personalized ID card online from such companies as ID Chief. Buyers pick the state, address, name and send in a scanned photo and signature to complete their profile.

ID Chief, whose website is based in China, responds personally to each buyer with a money-order request.

Brian Zimmer, president of the Coalition for a Secure Driver's License, said the ease with which people can get fake documents is alarming. "If the ID buyers are terrorists, the list of protected targets they can now access is a Homeland Security nightmare," he said.

In August of 2011, federal prosecutors uncovered a counterfeit ring of Chinese foreign nationals in Albuquerque forging New Mexico IDs for illegal Chinese immigrants. They ran advertisements in Chinese-language newspapers in New York offering false identification for $1,500.

The website Link-i-d is another popular source of identification registered in Panama. According to its website, the company sells ID cards that will pass security scans and have accurate holograms and ultraviolet-sensitive ink. Customers can send a money order of $100 for two cards. The website launched this year.

ID Chief in particular is a major source of concern because the IDs are cheap, easy to obtain and entirely legal — until buyers use it to lie about their age. The risks go beyond easier underage drinking.

The security risks include immigration, employment verification and, most important, aviation security, said Andrew Meehan, a policy analyst for the Coalition for a Secure Driver's License. He said the most concerning threat is that the U.S. government can do very little about it.

"Short of filing a complaint to the World Trade Organization, the request has to be made to the Chinese government," he said.

According to Huff of the Virginia agency, it has always been easy for the untrained eye to be fooled by fake IDs. The difference is, Huff said, that the new generation of forged IDs is "good enough to fool the trained eye."

For buyers from ID Chief and other companies, the easy-to-use online form does not come without risk. Buyers have reported identity theft and hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt in their names after buying from the Chinese forgers, authorities say.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I googled how to buy fake Id and came up with hundreds of sites, obviously it isn't hard to do .

22 Re: Bush-Gore election can it happen again? on Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:10 am

gypsy


Moderator
I know it is futile.,with you, but I had to answer
what does this article prove? like I said the 40+plus years I have served on the voting, panel.I have not seen one latino/Mexican or foreign person vote,,what is the problem?

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