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1 Deportation on Thu May 24, 2012 10:45 am

Candy Cottingham


Veteran
Back during the great depression, Herbert Hoover ordered the deportation of ALL illegal aliens in order to make jobs available to American citizens that desperately needed work.

Harry Truman deported over two million illegal aliens after WWII to create jobs for returning veterans.

In 1954 Dwight Eisenhower deported 13 million Mexicans. The program was called Operation Wetback. It was done so WWII and Korean War veterans would have a better chance at jobs. It took two years, but they deported them!

Now, if they could deport the illegal aliens back then, they could surely do it today. If you have doubts about the accuracy of this information, enter Operation Wetback into your favorite search engine and confirm it for yourself.

Why, you might ask, can't they do this today? Actually the answer is quite simple. Hoover , Truman, and Eisenhower were men of honor, not untrustworthy politicians looking for votes!

Reminder: Don't forget to pay your taxes - 12 to 20 million illegal aliens – are depending on it.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/allcreativefriends/

2 Re: Deportation on Thu May 24, 2012 11:05 am

runawayhorses


Owner
Some people argue that illegal aliens helps our economy. Many employers rely on illegal aliens because they can pay them cheaply and in some case under the table. People have argued that if we deported all the illegal aliens our economy would be worst than it already is.

This day in age in 2012 it is harder to deport mass quantities of people without it looked upon as cruelty. We can't behave like we did back when Herbert Hoover was around. There are some people that would like to see this, but in all reality it is not practical or doable this day in age.

I personally don't want illegal aliens here because they are breaking the law, but I understand why they left there country to come here. They can't take away jobs from people that have a trade or knowledge in a particular area. Most people that complain about it have a trade and are in no way threatened by illegal aliens in the work force. Some peoples motives are racial related to deport them and they wrap themselves in the flag and use the economy as an excuse for there reasoning why they want them deported. There economy excuse is not entirely accurate because some analysts argue it would hurt our economy to deport them.

that looks like a C&P you posted?

3 Re: Deportation on Thu May 24, 2012 12:54 pm

gypsy


Moderator
that is an email floating around.. Tyler I agree with your post, 100%

The post can be checked with Truth or lies >>

4 Re: Deportation on Thu May 24, 2012 3:18 pm

Candy Cottingham


Veteran
Mexico.... Drug Barons..

You need a Gun to protect yourself.

They will steal from you.

Some are illegal.

Send them back.

You have a border control.

Do you want these Mexicans working as slaves for little money..

Ikea the Swedish Furniture Company have been selling inferior Tables and sofas ect.

Not made in Sweden as first thought. Prisoners in the then Eastern bloc were made to make them under bad conditions.
They were mainly against just one government...not real criminals.

Cheap Labour is not the answer to the Economy.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/allcreativefriends/

5 Re: Deportation on Thu May 24, 2012 3:47 pm

SSC


Admin
I would LOVE to see every illegal shipped across the borders, the practice of anchor babies is costing us a fortune, they leach the welfare system, go to hospitals knowing they can't pay running up the costs to those of us who do pay our bills, they are funneling drugs by the mega tons across the Arizona , Texas and California borders, they now are into snatching children to sell off in slave markets. All the time the Feds are kissing their ass. I don't care if they work cheap, who is that helping ? Not the Americans looking for work. When you have a family and bills people will take any job to make ends meet. It seems every time a state tries to pass laws to protect Legal Americans the Feds. try to block it. Now the latest statistics show the caucasian race is no longer the majority race. When will the gov. wake up, ICE is useless, border patrols are under maned and the influx continues daily. Sux to be from a poor country but now we are struggling to keep our head above water. Get rid of leaches and we will become stronger.

6 Re: Deportation on Thu May 24, 2012 4:12 pm

gypsy


Moderator
We have tons of Mexican,Iraqies,in our area not one problem has there been they do not leach from our welfare. most of the crime committed here is from white/black Citizens, not illegals. the Mexicans,and others from other countries put more into the economy, than they take out! they spend what money they make, which puts that into the economy.

7 Re: Deportation on Thu May 24, 2012 5:24 pm

gypsy


Moderator
here is an interesting link may answer many questions.

FactCheck.org : Social Security for Immigrants and Refugees
If the immigrant is over 65, they can apply for SSI and Medicaid and get more than a woman on ... think "illegal," and the plain fact is that illegal immigrants don’t

8 Re: Deportation on Thu May 24, 2012 5:30 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
There are more legal citizens 'percentage wise' cheating the US system than illegal aliens. We don't have slave labor in this country the illegal aliens have regular jobs like picking oranges and other fruit and vegetables.

There are more legal citizens breaking the law selling drugs and snatching children to sell in slave markets than illegal aliens. Illegal aliens are no worst than legal citizens in regards to abiding by our laws. More legal citizens occupy our jails than does illegal aliens.

Being of the Caucasian race is not automatically obvious to people that they are good citizens, in fact it might be the opposite if you were to look at percentages. More people have been killed by the Caucasian race than by illegal aliens.

If you were from another planet looking at the Earth from a telescope and observing the human race in the United States, and you could differentiate between legal citizens and illegal aliens, you would assume that the illegal aliens were the good guys because the legal citizens on average were breaking more laws, killing more people, and jailed more than the illegal aliens were.

With that idea think about this, if you were from another planet viewing the human race walking there dogs on a leash everyday, and you seen the dogs taking a crap on the ground and the people picking it up and putting it in a plastic bags, who would YOU assume is in charge?

9 Re: Deportation on Fri May 25, 2012 1:40 pm

SSC


Admin
Over 13 million illegals in the US right now, who do you think pays the bills on them, WE DO !!!! People whine they can't get medical care but the illegals have no problem, they just don't pay the bill, WE DO !!! They work jobs citizens should be working. The crime rate for illegals is going off the charts and yes slave trade is alive and well in the US, most victims being sent to South America. I am not saying those of Arabic decent are illegal, they are here on a free ride from the gov. to buy up motels, liquor store , cigarette shops and gas stations, scary part most are highly educated, nuclear medicine etc. Walk up to a group of Mexicans and ask for green cards, they scatter like fleas on a dog. As long as illegals get food stamps, their kids are allowed to get education and a whooping welfare check we are screwed.

10 Re: Deportation on Fri May 25, 2012 2:17 pm

gypsy


Moderator
my fact check states illegals can't get food stamps!or medicaid, our state does have free clinics for the poor..if anyone goes to the hospital or doctor here, you have to show an id! simple solution..

11 Re: Deportation on Fri May 25, 2012 2:46 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
Right, you can't get food stamps or medicade without being a legal citizen. They need your social security number to get you food stamps and medicade.

12 Re: Deportation on Fri May 25, 2012 2:47 pm

gypsy


Moderator
FULL ANSWER

We’ll start with the most comical error. There is no monthly payment to refugees.

Refugee Re-do

The wrongheaded idea that refugees in the U.S. get "a monthly allowance of $1,890" actually started as a mistaken claim about refugees in Canada. In 2004 an irate Canadian misread a story in the Toronto Star and sent off an error-filled e-mail, which was so widely forwarded it prompted an official debunking by the Canadian government. Somewhere along the way a malicious prankster copied the falsehood almost verbatim and applied it to the U.S. We explained all this in an "Ask FactCheck" item in 2007.

Maximum Mistake

Also wrong – and by a wide margin – is the claim that a Social Security pensioner can get "a monthly maximum of $1,012 in old age pension." The true figure is more than double that. A person retiring this year at the full retirement age of 66 could qualify for a monthly check of up to $2,323, depending on how much she earned and paid into the system over her working life, according to the Social Security Administration.

Notch Baby Nonsense

The example of the woman who retired in 2004 after 60 years of work is also absurd. For one thing, somebody born in 1924 normally would have retired no later than full retirement age – which then was 65 years and four months – rather than continuing to work until age 80.

It’s remotely possible that a relatively low-income worker would have received a monthly pension check of only $791 per month as claimed, but depending on her earnings over her working life she could have received up to $1,825 per month – which was the maximum pension benefit for persons retiring in 2004 at full retirement age. The average monthly benefit paid to all retirees in January 2004, including those who retired in earlier years, was $903. That was adjusted upward to $922 by the annual cost of living adjustment that year.

The reference to a "catch 22" may be a garbled allusion to the "notch baby" controversy from an earlier decade. Some persons born between 1916 and 1921 felt unfairly treated by an adjustment Congress made in 1977, and they lobbied Congress for years to increase their benefits. Financial columnist Jane Bryant Quinn called their grievance "a distortion" in a 1999 article explaining the background. But whatever side one takes in the dispute, it’s a simple fact that somebody born in 1924 would not have been affected.

Bashing Immigrants

The message seeks to generate outrage about over-generous treatment of "immigrants," but misleads the reader in several ways – mainly by failing to distinguish between illegal immigrants (who generally don’t qualify for any benefits) and naturalized U.S. citizens.

It begins by saying "If the immigrant is over 65, they can apply for SSI and Medicaid." Note that SSI, the acronym for Supplemental Security Income, is a welfare system separate from Social Security retirement benefits. Medicaid is a state-federal program providing medical insurance for low-income persons and is separate from the federal Medicare system for any American who reaches age 65.

Generally, legal immigrants – those who have become citizens and some who have legal permission to be in the U.S – can qualify for these programs on the same basis as anybody else. (The rules allowing some non-citizens to get SSI are complicated, and explained here.) Many people see the word "immigrants" and automatically think "illegal," and the plain fact is that illegal immigrants don’t qualify for either SSI or Social Security.

Illegal immigrants also don’t qualify for Medicaid, except in certain emergency conditions, and that amounts to relatively little. A 2007 study in the Journal of the American Medical Association looked at 48,391 individuals who received services reimbursed under Emergency Medicaid during a 4-year period in North Carolina, a state with a rapidly growing immigrant population. The study found that nearly all the patients were in the U.S. illegally, but that spending for their emergency care (mostly childbirth and treating complications of pregancy) amounted to less than 1 percent of the state’s total Medicaid spending.

To sum up: This email’s claim that immigrants and refugees get more generous Social Security, SSI and Medicaid benefits than ordinary citizens is completely wrong.

-Brooks Jackson
Sources

Sellar, Don. "Can we dispel this urban myth?" Toronto Star. 27 Nov 2004.

Roseman, Ellen. "The government and your money." 50Plus Magazine. Feb 2005.

"Just the Facts: Financial Assistance for Refugees." Citizenship and Immigration Canada. 22 Nov. 2006, accessed 17 Apr 2009.

13 Re: Deportation on Sat May 26, 2012 6:48 pm

SSC


Admin
www.immigrationcounters.com/

These numbers are done in real time so they are changing constantly !!

ImmigrationCounters.com provides the key numbers and events related to illegal immigration in the United States. Using the latest government and private sources, research and analysis trending data is factored at their individual rates of increase. For information about the research behind the individual counters clickhere Data Sources. ImmigrationCounters.com supports legal immigration and respect for all humanity yet highlights the significant impact of illegal immigration in America.






Illegal Aliens in Country
24,944,204,119


Other Than Mexican (OTM) in Country

625,044

Money Wired to Mexico Since Jan 2006
$30,458,625,546


Money Wired to Latin America Since 2001
$269,749,677,993


Cost of Social Services Since 1996
$5,753,222

Children of Illegals in Public Schools
5,753,222

Cost of Illegals in K-12 Since 1996
$397,548,635,546


Illegal Aliens Incarcerated
479,411


Cost of Incarcerations Since 2008
$25,129,057,145


Illegal Alien Fugitives

805,929

Anchor Babies Since 2002
4,964,495







Commentary

ImmigrationCounters.com informs the public of the realities of illegal immigration while challenging the myths and misinformation surrounding it. After decades of passively watching this problem grow, most Americans are now aware of the severity of this issue. Our government has demonstrated a complete lack of urgency to control illegal immigration both on the borders and within the interior. Because of this failure, that which traditionally had been the American way of welcoming immigration is now dividing the country because of one word, illegal. Opposing illegal immigration and wanting the laws enforced is not un-American. It is time to set the record straight on what is un-American, illegal.

The issue of illegal immigration doesn't need more laws, studies or debates, it needs leadership and enforcement. America doesn't need immigration reform, it needs leadership reform. Because our government has failed to enforce the existing immigration laws, why should the people be confident they will do so with expanded immigration reform? Because of these failures, legislators have been addressing the problems at their local levels with bills to manage it incrementally, piece-by-piece, rather than trying to fix the national problem at once--an impossible task. What most Americans are expecting is to have secure borders, enforcement of the existing laws with no sanctuary status, meaningful punishment of employers who knowingly hire illegally and removal of incentives such as birthright citizenships and public school enrollments without status verifications. We must also address the fact that we're soft on criminals caught in crimes and aren't deported. No other country would allow this to continue. 40% of them entered the country legally and overstayed their visas. Yet there's still no reliable method to verify if Visa overstays have left the country. Another incentive that must be addressed is the birthright citizenship program that has resulted in millions of children and parents receiving instant rights and benefits. Some have called them "GPS babies" and this certainly cannot be what the authors of the 14th Amendment intended to occur. Public housing and other benefits are provided for the illegal parents through their 'anchor children' while citizens are turned away because of limited resources. This antiquated program must end. Government agencies and officials at all levels must address the costs associated with this kind of abuse. Past mistakes have been made in attempts to fix illegal immigration and our communities can no longer afford these kinds of mistakes.

America must have immigration enforcement that reflects the nation's call to respect our laws, in balance with the human side of illegal immigration. This must override the narrow interests of the business lobby, expanding government agencies, government officials who envision their dependent class and those who see it as a source of new votes. Recent language by Senator Reid, Senator Schumer and their peers reveal they're very much out-of-touch with the realities of illegal immigration. For example, there's nothing "draconian" (according to Sen. Reid) about our immigration laws being enforced, laws which are the most liberal and inviting in the world. According to Sen. Reid our border security fence project is "a symbol of fear and intolerance." Representative Pete Stark is on record mocking that if a new border fence is constructed, he will "start a ladder company." Equally disturbing are comments by Representative Pelosi who expressed her outrage of ICE deporting parents apart from their birthright children, yet she refuses to address the root cause of that problem, our government allowing millions of birthright babies. If our government would stop the practice of birthright citizenships then the family separation scenario would be greatly reduced. With emotional platitudes she ignores the cause and expresses disdain towards hard working federal agents doing their jobs. These same legislators and their peers are opposed to e-Verify for fear of mistakes (it's 99% accurate for legal workers and 54% accurate when fraudulent ID numbers are used) while failing to address the fact that ID fraud is already rampant in the illegal alien communities. On one side of the federal hand it doesn't really try to require businesses to validate something as important as the legal right to be employed, yet on the other hand it does enforce how businesses store paint or provides a certain level of lighting. This is an utter failure of priorities!

America cannot suddenly disregard our forefathers' immigration principles simply to appease PACs from the U.S. Chamber Of Commerce and the National Council of La Raza. Respecting our laws and morale principles is precisely what has made our country strong, stable and unique in the world. These concerns don't represent a selfish interest in stopping our nation from the inclusion of healthy and legal immigration; rather, they're about being a nation of laws. These laws and responsibilities apply to everyone without a hint of racism or xenophobia. Our imperfect history cannot be rewound as some activists would like in their "Reconquista," to re-conquer the land (as in the days of the Pueblo People, a land of barrenness before the borders were established). Angry foreigners should direct their energy towards their own governments or towards Spain for the Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire and the Spanish colonization of the Americas. Mexico won its independence from Spain, yet now they're quick to abandon the independence they won and leave their homeland? Why is there so much anger and attitudes of entitlement towards the United States? This is in large part due to the Latin leaderships' continuous propaganda of blaming America for their problems, someone else to blame for their failures. Its easy money for their countries, jobs, services and educations they don't have to provide.

The pro-amnesty groups would like to compare today's illegal aliens with the immigrants from the past, such as those that approached Ellis Island and the Statue of Liberty (some were even turned back). Today's illegals are actually an entirely different group that has lied on their visitor visas, overstayed their visas, snuck across the border (while leaving mountains of trash), committed tax fraud, ID fraud, insurance fraud and Social Security fraud, exploited the system by their birthright babies, exploited the social services, wired billions out of our country, gained illegal employment and failed to meet naturalization requirements. We have learned that illegal aliens will be as corrupt as the system allows them to be. Compared to the Ellis Island immigrants, today there are hundreds of immigration laws and requirements in place including sofisticated forms of ID and a complex governmental and employment infrastructure. These systems cannot be bypassed. Every developed country has immigration laws. Without them sovereignty and national identity are weakened, security is lost and a perpetual string of problems occur. The United States naturalization laws have been established as far back as 1790. Since 1929, illegal entry into the United States is a federal crime. America is not a place, it is a nation. Its people are not residents, they are citizens!

There are many anti-enforcement religious organizations that try to find a parallel between historical events of migration in the Bible and today's illegal immigration. What they fail to acknowledge is what the Bible says about respect for the laws and respect for those in government authority. Those who truly want to obey God will do just that and realize God's provision in their native countries rather than trying to obtain it illegally through lawlessness in America. These organizations also fail to acknowledge the fact that even during biblical times becoming a citizen of many countries was actually quite difficult, becoming a citizen of Rome was difficult as one example. The American Conference of Catholic Bishops (excluded from paying federal income taxes yet they want the taxpayers to import the poor) have been quite aggressive in their push for amnesty. We would challenge them to open up some amnesty into their pristine Vatican City of Rome, 200 from Mexico with unknown criminal backgrounds, uneducated and with some serious health issues would be a good start. How about some gang members becoming full citizens of Vatican City, and the drug cartel's new opportunities because of easier access to Italy?

Most Americans respect the laws while raising their children to do the same, yet they're reminded daily of the millions in the country who violate not only immigration laws but virtually every law that exists. They notice the unscrupulous businesses that hire them and the government agencies that cater to them at great expense. Our officials are charged with the responsibility of this oversight and have failed to do so on a scale unimaginable. It's obvious our officials have allowed this problem to grow un-checked. For example the Border Patrol will approach suspicious individuals walking or driving within about a 100 mile range inland to verify their legal status. However, once illegals make it into our cities and communities where the impact and risks are even greater, they now become unapproachable and off-limits for fear of "profiling." This is an inconsistent and ineffective practice.

Government agencies and lobbyist also have a history of under-estimating statistics and costs. If a path to citizenship (i.e., Amnesty) is offered, government leaders will quickly realize there are significantly more than just 10-11 million in the country--in fact, the numbers could easily be double their estimates. This would be an offense to the millions of honest immigrants who have become citizens through the legal process. The opportunity to live and work in America must remain an invited and controlled privilege, not to be gained by backdoor tactics or by paying a small fine.

Illegal immigrants are not "victims" who need us to rescue them. The CIA reports that the Mexican unemployment rate was recently only 4%, lower than 150 other countries and lower than the unemployment rate of the United States. Mexico is ranked #13 in GDP, higher than 172 countries. Mexico is home to the richest man in the world, has nine billionaires and has more millionaires than Germany.

This problem is much broader than what some media images suggest (e.g., the harvesting of crops, immigrants feeding their families, or emotional photos of parents deported from their anchor child--an extremely rare event). A significant number are single males with no families to feed. In fact, illegal immigrants know that having an anchor child greatly reduces their chances of being deported. Yet the same media is not sympathetic to American parents separated from their children when they're caught breaking the law. A significant amount of the money being wired to Mexico and Latin America is not for their families, it is to pay off the human smugglers and drug cartels back home. Otherwise their family members' safety will be jeopardized.

Americans have witnessed millions of illegals openly engage in undesirable activities while enjoying special treatment that our own citizens don't receive. Such activities include catch-and-release (a type of sanctuary status that even foreign diplomats don't get), failure to appear in court, immigrant gangs, drug and human smuggling, violent crimes, massive identity fraud, illegal voting, driving under the influence, hit-and-run accidents and various other motor vehicle violations, tax free incomes, free social services (including housing and food stamps), free emergency room care, public school enrollments, a full range of medical services for family members due to chain migration--including elderly parents who draw on the healthcare system and maternity care for their anchor babies. As if this weren't enough, they then wave their foreign flags in the streets of America demanding their rights yet they don't have the courage to demonstrate in their native countries to fix their own countries' problems.

Across the nation, District Attorneys routinely cut plea bargains with illegals caught in crimes who aren't deported or incarcerated, only to repeat their crimes in the future. If they agree to be deported (many times agreeing to self-deportation), they often return to the U.S. in short order and are more emboldened against our laws and courts. Up to 80% on deportation orders have not been deported. These kinds of activities are hard on the nation and its communities, yet amazingly people are expected to accept the concept that illegal immigration is somehow "good for America." Americans must ask themselves if these are the people they want to reward with citizenship while others have waited in line to be here legally? Americans are now learning that the 14th Amendment was not intended to give special benefits to illegal mothers and their birthright babies, this amendment was intended for the children of slaves. Americans are becoming outraged that their leadership has allowed this amendment to be used as a magnet for illegal immigration, an incentive to break the law.

Are all illegal immigrants bad people? Of course not. Some work hard and try their best to support themselves independently, since when has this become something unique in life? However, all illegal immigrants have in bad faith violated federal immigration laws. This, in turn, leads to a long string of other violations, impacts on society and attitudes that affect our communities. The illegals themselves often pay a high price for living in the shadows. For example many crimes against illegal immigrants go unreported for fear of deportation. As a result some in law enforcement claim that asking for the legal status of persons would hinder their ability to reduce crime, claiming that illegals would be afraid to report crimes for fear of deportation. That position contradicts itself because with effective immigration enforcement those same individuals committing the crimes would not be in the country to begin with. Our government has also confused the illegals by not sending a strong message to the world about our laws. Instead the message has been: "If you get across the border, you're 'home free." Now they're stuck in the middle of this problem, trading their problems from their home countries for even bigger problems here.

Most illegals will not assimilate because they never planned to or need to. With so many catering to their wishes and needs there's little incentive to assimilate. Instead of becoming Americans, more than any immigrant group in American history they turn their communities into 'little Mexico.' No other group has tried to force themselves onto America as this one has. Preserving ones culture is certainly worthy, pushing your culture and language onto others while in their country illegally is offensive! Many live quite well here, while some with thrifty lifestyles wire billions of dollars back to their native countries for powerful savings accounts. An entire housing market has evolved in Latin America to build homes from remittance money, paid for in full by cash. With no mortgages these are nice homes that many law abiding Americans will never realize themselves. In many cases Americans who lose their jobs and homes are as a result of illegal hiring, the undercutting of prevailing wages, jobs lost to NAFTA and offshore business. Rarely are the labor savings passed onto the American consumers. When the business organizations lobby our elected officials (a partial list is provided on this page) that they need cheap workers otherwise they can't fill their jobs, this is a self-serving myth. Citizens and legal immigrants would proudly fill those jobs, but at prevailing wage. Business organizations are salivating at undercutting the prevailing wages or expanding their consumer markets. This is their shortsighted "rush to the bottom line" at the expense of lost jobs to citizens and eliminating competitive businesses who obey the laws. This is not the American way of healthy competition that encourages progress. Rather, it is the worst form of activity in business. Business lobbyists also fail to consider how this shifts numerous social costs onto the nation.

Americans know that one phone call from their President could charge the United States full-time or National Guard military to secure (even under strict rules of engagement) the remaining open-border sections known for crossings. But our previous President capitulated with the Mexican President's request to not use the military to secure our borders, knowing how effective this would be. Internally, because of their activities in the country, more than 600,000 state and local law enforcement officers come into contact with illegal aliens every day. State and local police make up approximately 96 percent of U.S. law enforcement and are an effective force multiplier for federal law enforcement, yet few are using the ICE 287(g) program so that small numbers are being turned over to ICE. This practice must stop. ICE very often claims it doesn't have the resources to pick up even those already detained for them, Americans are tired of the excuses. If even our military bases' security is largely contracted out, ICE can certainly implement a process for trained contractors in government vehicles to pick up those who simply need to be transported. Because government managers have failed to manage the existing immigration laws, how will they manage a new and greatly expanded immigration program?

Because illegal immigrants have failed to follow the existing laws, why would anyone think they'll suddenly come forward and follow more immigration laws or pay fines? Americans also see the inconsistency between "talking tough" about border security while at the same time providing billions of dollars in government services for those in the country illegally. Most of the agencies don't even bother to ask for their legal status! By providing free services to illegal immigrants, these agencies use up resources that our citizens need--citizens who deserve to have priority. The costs for providing those 'free' services are being shifted over into higher taxes and insurance costs. As a result, many inner city hospitals are closing or moving, schools are stretched to the limit, taxes are on the increase. The American people can no longer be forced bear the weight of the failed leadership of its neighboring countries, we cannot continue to "import poverty." Those countries and their people must bear that weight for themselves. Illegal immigrants will not value American life if it's too quickly realized and by entering through a back door. All countries must of their own sweat equity and in the light of day develop better standards and opportunities for themselves, only then will it be embraced.

The business lobby for cheap, illegal labor is shortsighted. The undocumented are becoming more selective about the jobs they'll do and how much they're paid. If they're granted legal status they'll soon demand the same prevailing wages and standards that citizens receive, thereby eliminating the attraction of the business lobby. Most illegal workers are not here for farm labor. The shortsighted business community harms their own long term interests and that of America by lowering the employment standards instead of raising them. We're seeing the results of this. The question is if America is going to remain a nation of laws and principles or will the vanishing dollar overrule all else? Will living in America continue to be embraced, or will our country simply become a job site, a place to exploit the system? When our laws and principles are allowed to be broken on a scale this large we now find ourselves facing the results few could have imagined.



14 Re: Deportation on Sat May 26, 2012 6:57 pm

SSC


Admin
Another small question, Why is Mexico's unemployment rate only 5.6 and ours is over 8.1 ????? Maybe because 18,000 US companies have businesses generating work there, and we still send aid to Mexico ??? What is wrong with this picture ?

15 Re: Deportation on Sat May 26, 2012 7:58 pm

gypsy


Moderator
"Can we dispel this urban myth?" Toronto Star. 27 Nov 2004. yes we can by not listening to lies and myths ,that have not the facts! no illegal can draw food stamps or file for medicaid,SSI unless they are citizens..immigrants or not illegal!two different subjects~

let me repeat! illegals cannot get food stamps!

16 Re: Deportation on Sat May 26, 2012 8:12 pm

gypsy


Moderator
also I have a site that states,money sent to relatives is at a all time low.. and that illegals has dropped substantially in the last 3 -1/2 years..
I will find this..

17 Re: Deportation on Sat May 26, 2012 8:21 pm

SSC


Admin
When they buy FALSE ss numbers and tax id numbers oh yes they can draw and are doing so every day. Wake up the illegals are just that Illegal and taking from the US citizens every day.

18 Re: Deportation on Sat May 26, 2012 8:30 pm

SSC


Admin
.
Dealing with the US Illegal Alien Problem
Dealing with our illegal alien problem has been a large problem for our country. Out of 307 million people in America 11.1 million are illegally in the country. Some people think that illegal immigrants should be granted full amnesty without conditions. Others believe that they should be given amnesty as long as they abide by our laws and try to get citizenship. Still others think that all the illegal aliens should be deported immediately. As citizens of America we need to be informed of the statistics and issues surrounding illegal immigrants.

Illegal aliens come into the United States from several different places for different reasons. Currently about 60% of the illegal immigrants come from Mexico (“Fox News”) The Latin American countries represent 23% of the total and 5% come from Canada and Europe. (Passel, Capps, and Fix) Most of these people come into America seeking economic opportunities or free health care. Some sneak into our country specifically to commit crimes.

Each year our boarder patrol agents apprehend over a million people trying to illegally cross our Mexico-Texas boarder. (“American Patrol Reference Archive”) Because our boarder patrols have gaps, human smuggling into the US has become a business. Some Mexican drug cartels sell passage into the US for $1200 to $2500 for Mexicans and $45,000 to $60,000 for non-Mexicans. Robert Muller, the director of the FBI, claims that known al Qa’ida associates pretend to be Mexican immigrants and pay to cross boarder into the nation. (Pope)

Our laws have exasperated this boarder patrol problem by practically encouraging Mexicans to commit a felony and cross our boarders. For example, The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act states that hospitals can’t turn away anyone requiring emergency medical care regardless of their citizenship, status, or ability to pay. Because of this act many Mexicans cross the border for free Health Care. Each year hospitals close to the boarder receive 7,000 new cases of leprosy and 16,000 of tuberculosis from illegal aliens while paying legal residents must wait behind them in line.
(Wooldridge)

In Los Angels County new emergency room cases from illegal immigrants cost taxpayers more that $500 per tax payer in 2004. Fox News says that “In Los Angeles County, patients can wait four days for a hospital bed and up to two years for gallbladder surgery”.. Insured, law abiding citizens must wait behind illegal immigrants for up to two years with these symptoms because of laws we have in place. In addition, 71 hospitals have closed down in California because of uninsured people using emergency rooms. Over 50% of the uninsured are illegal immigrants. (LaJeunesse)

Another illegal immigration problem that our laws create involves ‘Anchor Babies’. An anchor baby is a baby born of illegal parents in America. The parents hope that due to the child’s citizenship that they will also be allowed to stay in the country. The 14th Amendment of the US Constitution states that “Every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States.” Because of the 14th Amendment “Anchor babies” are legal. (Wooldridge) There are currently 3 million Anchor babies in America. (Passel, Capps, and Fix) These babies cost 2.45 billion dollars a year for education and 1.75 billion a year to be born. (Wooldridge)

In addition to the anchor baby problem, a weak boarder enables Drug trafficking. The ability for Drug cartels to move over the boarder with relative ease has resulted in over 100 billion dollars worth of drugs being brought over the boarder and sold through over 11,000 gang members every year. (Wooldridge) Annually, over 2.2 million Kilograms of cocaine is brought over the Mexico-Texas border. (Pope) Also, 80% of the daily supply of marijuana, methamphetamines, cocaine, and heroin come from over the Mexican border. (“US Illegal Aliens”) While only 5.4% of Americans are Hispanic they make up 46% of the drug-trafficking arrests in America. (Pope)

Another huge problem that illegal aliens create in America is a sharp increase in crime rates. An astounding 86% of illegal aliens in the workforce that are apprehended for immigration laws violations have stolen American identities. In addition, 240,000 illegal aliens are convicted sex offenders. (Pope) Our state and federal prisons have 618,000 illegal immigrants that have been convicted of committing a deadly crime on American citizens. This imprisonment costs the US tax payers 1.6 billion dollars a year. These imprisoned illegal aliens make up 29% of all inmates in state and federal prisons. (Wooldridge) In 2009 35% of the illegal aliens deported were convicted criminals totaling 136,126 criminals. In 2010 (from January to June of 2010) 113, 453 criminals were deported that represented 49.9% of the total illegal aliens deported for that time period. (Slevin)

Gangs are another large problem in the U.S. and again illegal aliens have made the situation worse. For example, in North Carolina’s Hispanics only make up 7% of the population but they make up more that 22% of North Carolina’s gang members. One of the most powerful gangs in North Carolina is the MS-13 and they are 90% illegal aliens. They depend on the border smuggling to support their crimes. Nationally 49% of gang members are Hispanics and 66% of the Hispanic/Latino gang members are illegal. (Pope)

Fixing the illegal alien problem would have a large impact on America. If there were some way to instantly rid America of illegal immigrants, 57,000 cars a year would remain in the possession of the rightful owner in Phoenix alone. Also Thirteen Americans a day wouldn’t be killed by uninsured drunken illegal aliens and twelve more citizens a day would not have to die a violent death by the hands of non-citizens. (Wooldridge) In addition to those crimes another 8 children a day under the age of 18 wouldn’t have the emotional/physical scaring of being victims of sex crimes. (“US Illegal Aliens”)

Many illegal immigration proponents think that the illegal aliens help sustain the U.S. economy. They claim that the illegal aliens don’t use many government programs yet pay taxes to the government. It is true that illegal immigrants can’t receive social security and they pay sales taxes. But it is also true that they get free health care and their children get free public schooling while they don’t pay their income tax. Plus as already described illegal aliens commit a higher percentage of crime and increase the burden on our criminal system.

Another issue commonly argued by illegal alien proponents is that illegal immigrants take low level work that other Americans wouldn’t. Yes, it is true that illegal men have a higher employment rate than legal citizens at 96%. However, 6 million illegal immigrants are in the labor force and fewer than 4.3 million are in low wage jobs. This leaves over 1.7 million skilled jobs being taken by people illegally in the country. (Passel, Capps, and Fix) According to the laws of supply and demand if the 4.3 million illegal aliens working in low wage workplaces were removed then many businesses would be forced to pay their employees more. This would enable Americans to work more unskilled labor jobs. If this employment change happened, the prices of certain goods would rise. However, if all prices rose simultaneously while pay also increased it would not be economically consequential in the long run. Also the unemployment rate would be reduced by 58.9% to a mere 5.5%. The unemployment rate is based on the number of people without jobs currently looking for work divided by the number of people considered in the labor force. (“Seeking Alpha”)

Data shows that about one and a half million American teenagers (ages 16-19) are currently seeking work and are unable to find it. Almost three million Americans between the ages of 16-24 are seeking work. Generally teenagers and adults not yet out of college, (most people graduate between the ages of 22 and 24) work in the low wage jobs that illegal immigrants take. This means that if the illegal immigrants were removed from the workforce then almost 3 million of the 4.3 million low wage jobs would be available to American workers. Wages wouldn’t have to increase because so many of the jobs would be easily filled. In today’s job market many teenagers can’t get jobs quickly or when they want them and they become discouraged. If they stop searching for a job then they are then removed from the unemployed statistic. It’s likely that many of the discouraged American workers would also seek these job openings. Therefore, it’s likely that a large percentage of these 4.3 million jobs would be filled by American workers.

While illegal immigrants do keep the prices of certain goods low they cause many other problems in society. They bring hundreds of billions of dollars worth of drugs over the boarder every year. They smuggle anyone into the nation who is willing to pay. They increase crime rates drastically. They raise unemployment rates while stealing money from tax payers by using Health care and only paying sales tax. As a nation we need to take steps to stem the flow of illegal immigrants into our country.
Illegal Immigration Statistics
$113,000,000,000 - This year's cost of US illegal immigration. Approximately 75% of that cost is absorbed by the states.
$1117 - The average amount you and your family paid in taxes this year to support illegals.
$52,000,000,000 - The cost of educating the children of illegals. This is by far the single largest cost to the American taxpayer.
$2,700 - The average dollar amount a single illegal household costs the US federal government.
51% - The percentage of Mexican immigrant households that use at least one major welfare program. 28% use more than one.
1,400,000- The number of illegal immigrant households that use at least one major welfare program. (food stamps, WIC, school lunch, Medicaid, TANF, SSI, and public/rent-subsidized housing)




http://www.illegalimmigrationstatistics.org/



Last edited by SSC on Sat May 26, 2012 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

19 Re: Deportation on Sat May 26, 2012 8:32 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
I find it very difficult to believe that anyone can create a false SS number and get away with it,. and certainly not on a large scale. No way is that happening.

20 Re: Deportation on Sat May 26, 2012 8:33 pm

gypsy


Moderator
that is false! SSC here is a link,and I will repeat,you have to have social security,and id to draw anything and to visit a doctor,emergency room

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/07/06/world/americas/immigration.html

21 Re: Deportation on Sat May 26, 2012 8:34 pm

gypsy


Moderator
I agree Tyler~ it is all a fear mongering! is there a link for your copy/ paste ssc?

22 Re: Deportation on Sat May 26, 2012 8:43 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
It just can't happen.

For the sake of argument, how ridiculous is it to assume that its only the illegals doing it? If it was easy everyone would do it and create multiple accounts. You can't only blame the Illegal aliens, but like I said, I don't think its happening at all.

23 Re: Deportation on Sat May 26, 2012 8:49 pm

SSC


Admin
Does the IRS pay billions in tax refunds to workers who are in the U.S. illegally?

A: Yes. The Treasury Department’s Inspector General determined that $4.2 billion was paid in 2010, up from less than $1 billion in 2005. Leading Democrats are resisting a bill that would stop future payments.

http://www.factcheck.org/tag/food-stamps/

24 Re: Deportation on Sat May 26, 2012 8:55 pm

gypsy


Moderator
no,they don't! sorry! haha those are all false claims, by newt and others LOL exactly what i put in the beginning!

25 Re: Deportation on Sat May 26, 2012 9:00 pm

SSC


Admin
Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions

A long article but it does substantiate the fact false Id's used to get SS#'s are very easy to obtain. So NO gypsy is wasn't a false post.



Jim Wilson/The New York Times
Illegal immigrants who worked in a vineyard in Clarksburg, Calif., paid taxes for Social Security and Medicare, but will not get any benefits.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?pagewanted=2

By EDUARDO PORTER



Jim Wilson/The New York Times
Packages of false papers allow illegal immigrants to get employment and pay taxes, enriching the Social Security fund for other employees.





The New York Times




TOCKTON, Calif. - Since illegally crossing the Mexican border into the United States six years ago, Ángel Martínez has done backbreaking work, harvesting asparagus, pruning grapevines and picking the ripe fruit. More recently, he has also washed trucks, often working as much as 70 hours a week, earning $8.50 to $12.75 an hour.

Not surprisingly, Mr. Martínez, 28, has not given much thought to Social Security's long-term financial problems. But Mr. Martínez - who comes from the state of Oaxaca in southern Mexico and hiked for two days through the desert to enter the United States near Tecate, some 20 miles east of Tijuana - contributes more than most Americans to the solvency of the nation's public retirement system.

Last year, Mr. Martínez paid about $2,000 toward Social Security and $450 for Medicare through payroll taxes withheld from his wages. Yet unlike most Americans, who will receive some form of a public pension in retirement and will be eligible for Medicare as soon as they turn 65, Mr. Martínez is not entitled to benefits.

He belongs to a big club. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.

While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus - the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections.

Illegal immigration, Marcelo Suárez-Orozco, co-director of immigration studies at New York University, noted sardonically, could provide "the fastest way to shore up the long-term finances of Social Security."

It is impossible to know exactly how many illegal immigrant workers pay taxes. But according to specialists, most of them do. Since 1986, when the Immigration Reform and Control Act set penalties for employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants, most such workers have been forced to buy fake ID's to get a job.

Currently available for about $150 on street corners in just about any immigrant neighborhood in California, a typical fake ID package includes a green card and a Social Security card. It provides cover for employers, who, if asked, can plausibly assert that they believe all their workers are legal. It also means that workers must be paid by the book - with payroll tax deductions.

IRCA, as the immigration act is known, did little to deter employers from hiring illegal immigrants or to discourage them from working. But for Social Security's finances, it was a great piece of legislation.

Starting in the late 1980's, the Social Security Administration received a flood of W-2 earnings reports with incorrect - sometimes simply fictitious - Social Security numbers. It stashed them in what it calls the "earnings suspense file" in the hope that someday it would figure out whom they belonged to.

The file has been mushrooming ever since: $189 billion worth of wages ended up recorded in the suspense file over the 1990's, two and a half times the amount of the 1980's.

In the current decade, the file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year, generating $6 billion to $7 billion in Social Security tax revenue and about $1.5 billion in Medicare taxes.

In 2002 alone, the last year with figures released by the Social Security Administration, nine million W-2's with incorrect Social Security numbers landed in the suspense file, accounting for $56 billion in earnings, or about 1.5 percent of total reported wages.

Social Security officials do not know what fraction of the suspense file corresponds to the earnings of illegal immigrants. But they suspect that the portion is significant.

"Our assumption is that about three-quarters of other-than-legal immigrants pay payroll taxes," said Stephen C. Goss, Social Security's chief actuary, using the agency's term for illegal immigration.


Continued
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(Page 2 of 2)



Other researchers say illegal immigrants are the main contributors to the suspense file. "Illegal immigrants account for the vast majority of the suspense file," said Nick Theodore, the director of the Center for Urban Economic Development at the University of Illinois at Chicago. "Especially its growth over the 1990's, as more and more undocumented immigrants entered the work force."

Using data from the Census Bureau's current population survey, Steven Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies, an advocacy group in Washington that favors more limits on immigration, estimated that 3.8 million households headed by illegal immigrants generated $6.4 billion in Social Security taxes in 2002.

A comparative handful of former illegal immigrant workers who have obtained legal residence have been able to accredit their previous earnings to their new legal Social Security numbers. Mr. Camarota is among those opposed to granting a broad amnesty to illegal immigrants, arguing that, among other things, they might claim Social Security benefits and put further financial stress on the system.

The mismatched W-2's fit like a glove on illegal immigrants' known geographic distribution and the patchwork of jobs they typically hold. An audit found that more than half of the 100 employers filing the most earnings reports with false Social Security numbers from 1997 through 2001 came from just three states: California, Texas and Illinois. According to an analysis by the Government Accountability Office, about 17 percent of the businesses with inaccurate W-2's were restaurants, 10 percent were construction companies and 7 percent were farm operations.

Most immigration helps Social Security's finances, because new immigrants tend to be of working age and contribute more than they take from the system. A simulation by Social Security's actuaries found that if net immigration ran at 1.3 million a year instead of the 900,000 in their central assumption, the system's 75-year funding gap would narrow to 1.67 percent of total payroll, from 1.92 percent - savings that come out to half a trillion dollars, valued in today's money.

Illegal immigrants help even more because they will never collect benefits. According to Mr. Goss, without the flow of payroll taxes from wages in the suspense file, the system's long-term funding hole over 75 years would be 10 percent deeper.

Yet to immigrants, the lack of retirement benefits is just part of the package of hardship they took on when they decided to make the trek north. Tying vines in a vineyard some 30 miles north of Stockton, Florencio Tapia, 20, from Guerrero, along Mexico's Pacific coast, has no idea what the money being withheld from his paycheck is for. "I haven't asked," Mr. Tapia said.

For illegal immigrants, Social Security numbers are simply a tool needed to work on this side of the border. Retirement does not enter the picture.

"There will be a moment when I won't be able to continue working," Mr. Martínez acknowledges. "But that's many years off."

Mario Avalos, a naturalized Nicaraguan immigrant who prepares income tax returns for many workers in the area, including immigrants without legal papers, observes that many older workers return home to Mexico. "Among my clients," he said, "I can't recall anybody over 60 without papers."

No doubt most illegal immigrants would prefer to avoid Social Security altogether. As part of its efforts to properly assign the growing pile of unassigned wages, Social Security sends about 130,000 letters a year to employers with large numbers of mismatched pay statements.

Though not an intended consequence of these so-called no-match letters, in many cases employers who get them dismiss the workers affected. Or the workers - fearing that immigration authorities might be on their trail - just leave.

Last February, for instance, discrepancies in Social Security numbers put an end to the job of Minerva Ortega, 25, from Zacatecas, in northern Mexico, who worked in the cheese department at a warehouse for Mike Campbell & Associates, a distributor for Trader Joe's, a popular discount food retailer with a large operation in California.

The company asked dozens of workers to prove that they had cleared up or were in the process of clearing up the "discrepancy between the information on our payroll related to your employment and the S.S.A.'s records." Most could not.

Ms. Ortega said about 150 workers lost their jobs. In a statement, Mike Campbell said that it did not fire any of the workers, but Robert Camarena, a company official, acknowledged that many left.

Ms. Ortega is now looking for work again. She does not want to go back to the fields, so she is holding out for a better-paid factory job. Whatever work she finds, though, she intends to go on the payroll with the same Social Security number she has now, a number that will not jibe with federal records.

With this number, she will continue paying taxes. Last year she paid about $1,200 in Social Security taxes, matched by her employer, on an income of $19,000.

She will never see the money again, she realizes, but at least she will have a job in the United States.

"I don't pay much attention," Ms. Ortega said. "I know I don't get any benefit."





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