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1 church and state on Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:43 pm

rosco 357

i know this topic will not go far.just something i failed to follow up on in a post. for the most part, we came to the new country for freedom of religion. so the government would not dictate what religion we must follow. so we have seperation of church and state. at times it seems blurred. like congress opens it sessions with a prayer if im not mistaken. money has in God we trust.the new president has his hand on the bible when the chief justice swears him in as the new president.
in court we swear an oath to truth with our hand on the bible or use to and may still do.and one nation under God to our pledge to the Flag. and im sure many other things i dont even know about. BUT this is not why i posted, what i am going to post is just food for thought. and there is one flaw. the timing of my facts as it pertains to events in our history.i simply dont know the timing..
while on vacation, in Virginia, which is so rich in history. i love civil war sights, even gettyburg PA.i toured. but with always some fun for the kids like a few nights at virginia beach. and at Williamsburg VA. Busch Gardens amusment park,,but my point will be in the facinating time at the federally ran Coloinal Williamburg. that u cant enter. one must buy differnent kinds of passes, we had a 2 day pass, and they bus u in to the city. it is set as it was in the day. each store or building u enter has ppl dressed to the date, and they begin to explain how things were in those days near the revolution. to the last detail.blocks of building,taverns where the revolution was dicussed. so all this for this small thought,,lol,, while in the school, there was a crowd in it listening to a teacher, dressed to that day. and passed around what the children learned to read with, or one thing, but the only thing they showed. it was a wooden paddle type thing. with word and small stories on it. to read. in a public school mind u.and on that instrument of learning. one thing that was on it to advance there reading was i think the Lords Prayer. or one of the Psalms, i really forget which , but no matter. it was direct from the Bible. now my flaw, i dont know if it was before the Constitution or after or if before and after it was used. so it made my mind wonder what our Founding Fathers had in mind on this point.and how strict. they ment the seperation to be. just a small point . now patrick henry went to church there, and when in town thomas jefferson, i also toured his home in montecello.. but by the bible being on a elemetary grade public school reading material. i still wonder how our Founding Fathers i said not much but something to ponder?

2 Re: church and state on Fri May 09, 2008 2:04 am


I have given a great deal of thought to "separation of church and state" . (I assume that is what you meant.) The debates are all about the same and they consist of granite and chisels. I personally do not care if the Ten Commandments are in braille or English on the inside/ outside of every government building in the United States. (They damn sure don't need to be in any other languages, however. Yes, I know some scrolls are in Latin) Those arguments are nonsense in my humble opinion. Although, that issue alone seems to block the channels in the brain of the over the top fanatics debating the separation. (Throw in proposals of "intelligent design" being taught as a science and folks get red faced and obnoxious, myself included )

I realize the following view is over simplified and there are countless circumstances that I don't care to get into on a public forum. I might express a view which could offend some readers and I would never want to do that. I will keep it short and semi-sweet.

I would like to think most institutions of organized religion are charitable, and with all the wealth in organized religion I think they could do a lot more. The churches who preach love and compassion could take donations to feed and cloth all the illegals stressing out our system. The lazy a**holes who do not work by choice could have a decent meal before his nap. Every child without a father of record could be cared for by the churches. Then the uptight organized religious leaders just might begin using the dormant part of their brain. Sex education would be welcomed in our schools. Discussions about premarital sex and birth control would become less of a taboo topic. It is a disgrace not protect our children when we know they are sexually active. (A large percentage of teens are already sexually active whether we like to accept that or not! It isn't just the *bad* boys and girls either.) The sperm donors usually do not have plans that include a wife and baby.

If the churches would pitch in and ease the burden perhaps we could feel more comfortable about the future. For instance Social Security could be used for what it was intended. Disabled American citizens who are no longer able to work and their dependents could be provided for without thoughts of benefit cuts. The older American citizens who have EARNED social security benefits from years of hard work might not have to pay for any fraction of their health care. (X amount is deducted from a social security check for medicare and 20% is left to secondary insurance paid privately by people over 65.)

The Dept of Veteran Affairs might could be rebuilt to better care for the veterans. The care they receive now is deplorable in many parts of our great nation. Ask a vet the next time you see one what he/she thinks about the current state of veteran care.

All this to say, the issue is not just about ancient words chiseled on granite buildings or what books are in the school library.

I have rambled, but try to weed through it and hopefully you can find a single flower of common sense mixed in the mulch.

3 Re: church and state on Fri May 09, 2008 2:21 am


First of all, i know i am up late..
Figi! you have done it again,I mean this,, u have again made a very valid point~ no, rephrase many valid points..

the churches do help, but in my opinion not enough,nor do any of us as a community.

we gripe,(including me) about our system,gov't,,but we could also do more,,and your right let the programs be used for what they were orginally intended

we have had it way to soft here, and we need to buck up and quit whinning~~
like in of our own communities.. we know most of our neighbors~
we can make a difference i think~~

Get er done~~ my redneck phrase~lol

4 seperation of church and state,figi on Fri May 09, 2008 9:04 pm

rosco 357

i agree with most all ur post figi, first i will say,, and i dont know why,, it was one of my quotes in the quote thing, on i guess the old sight, it was a quote from President Andrew Jackson, close to or maybe the same, he said " The Bible is the rock on which this nation rest" actually i was surprised to read that, but some of the first presidents did not worry so much about being politacally correct. on churches helpling i go to a large church , but let me first state, i have no right saying anything as i dont do my part in what i give to the church, i fall short., ok but i have thought about so much money going into the building of a large church that has all the bells and whistle, they claim its built to the glory of God. im not sure if our church does enough, but they do have a food and clothing pantry, that ppl in need even ppl traveling, or ppl in the community. can come and the church will help them by giving them food and cloths, i know some ppl have taken advantage of what our church does, and had to cut some ppl off. and part of our budget goes to the homeless mission in birmingham which our church is not in Birmingham as i live in the suburbs, in what use to be country, lol, but not now, , i have always said this , If Jesus was back and walking the face of the earth, he would not be in the pretty and fancy big churches but be amoung the homeless, and sick . just as he did when he was on earth. remember he ran out the money changers from the church, or jewish church , i cant spell but u know, what i mean.
i have not checked into this, but only today, we talked about retirement time, one guy who is younger than me and in desert storm the first war, i mentioned the va health care, he said no, he will be on and i forget the name, tri something i think and he acted as if it was good, i think he said to be on that military health insurance u have to have 20 years minumum in the military, which he does as he is still in but about to get out,,oh well enjoyed ur post,,
one more thought is our church has many things the children can join and get into, they let the boy and girl scouts use the church to meet in,
of course seperation of church and state, as u know, is because england i think did not allow freedom of religion and had the state controled church , so the colonist, came here to worship as they chose. i would not want my grandkids exposed to some religions in school, so i have no problem with just letting the parents be in charge of how God is worshiped in their family,, and just leave the school out of it,, i do remember going to PTA meetings when my kids were young, and the principle of the school would hold pray before the meetings, things may have change i dont have a clue, lots of familys here send their children as i just wrote a check to my son in laws brothers son graduation from a private christian highschool,, that alot of children here go to,,, take care

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