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rosco 357


Veteran



F-35 AF-1 and AF-2 Ferry Flight to Edwards AFB showing 2 F-35s in flight and aerial refueling

Depending on what figures you use, the United States is either going to spend as much as $1 trillion -- with a T -- on the F-35 program over its life or something closer to $379 billion to design and build 2,443 of the fifth-generation fighter. That second number does not include the costs of operating and maintaining the aircraft, which typically comprise 70 percent or more of a weapon systems total cost, so the first number is likely more accurate. But how accurate? The numbers are very difficult to pin down so early in the program. For all the effort the Pentagon, the intelligence agencies and NASA put into it, cost estimating and judging life cycle costs is daunting work.

And, as the CEO of F-35 builder Lockheed Martin told Congress, that trillion-dollar estimate is based on a big change in how the Pentagon estimates the Joint Strike Fighter's costs.

Those costs are certainly going to be on the minds of defense officials gathering at the Paris Air Show beginning this weekend and as pressures build to cut defense budgets.

The original estimate, made in 2001, assumed a 30-year life for the plane. But in 2006 the Pentagon changed that to 50 years, CEO Bob Stevens said. Also, F-35 supporters say the Pentagon estimates are deeply flawed because they rely on historical models -- meaning the last similar plane we built, the F-16, and its cousins, the F-15 and the F-18. They argue the F-35's predictive maintenance software and sensors -- which will tell mechanics when a part needs replacing before it fails -- should lead to much lower maintenance costs.

On the other hand, the F-35 is a stealthy aircraft. The materials and techniques used to achieve stealth are historically Expensive.

For those who watch these programs closely, one other fact stands out. The costs for these aircraft -- as for most U.S. military aircraft -- does not include the engines, made by Pratt & Whitney. (General Electric and Rolls Royce have been building the so-called alternate engine for the plane, but Defense Secretary Robert Gates recently killed that program after Tea Party supporters in the House voted against it.) If you want to know how much the whole plane costs, then add something like $100 billion.

rosco 357


Veteran
there are a ton of vids when this one ends, watch the one on the right, the f35 lightning, 3:13 min, this plane is a vertical take off plane that the engine nozzle moves to shoot straight down, i remember on tv, i think compairing this plane to i think a Boeing plane, the military had to decide which one won the contract, this plane did i forgot what how the boeing worked, but both would take off vertical. the vid im talking about has rock music to it, again after the vid its the vid on the right hand bottom i think it says
f35 lightning, but i know its 3:13 so that should help and it shows the engine nozzletilt down.there also is a f22 raptor vid i have not watched it yet, . it may be after the second one im talking about, and one that compairs i think the latest russian jet, i have not watched them, yet,

runawayhorses


Owner
I watched this video and the other one you mentioned. Awesome Jet. Tech just keeps getting better and better.



rosco 357


Veteran
yes that was the one .. years ago i remember someone said on tv or somewhere, they love the sound of a JET it sounds like FREEDOM,,,,

runawayhorses


Owner
Yes it does to me too. I love the sound of a jet. That's one of the things I like about the Top Gun" movie is that is has good photography but the sound is good so you can hear the jets.



gypsy


Moderator
Sorry Guys! Jets don't impress me,, I will take a nice peaceful,green beach by a creek ,a picnic,glass of wine,and forget war,noise,pollution, that destroys our atmosphere!
I think it is a woman thing!

runawayhorses


Owner
If it weren't for the United States Jets you would have no picnic to go too because you would not be here. No one would in the United States. They are our biggest power military. Whoever rules the sky's wins the war.

If you're not impressed with the Jets that save our lives then I have nothing more to say.

gypsy


Moderator
I think Men are impressed with Jets.war,and such,I was not referring to protection,of our country, I respect that/I just don't love that technology, I respect/and am glad we have it,but men are more into it than women!I sure don't love it! I would rather settle things peaceful, I know that is impossible.Sometimes war is unnecessary,like the afghan/Iraq war!
just my thoughts!

runawayhorses


Owner
Women are impressed too. Its not a Man or Woman issue. The fact you are not impressed was the point at hand. You stated you are not impressed with the Jets. That's too bad, that's what is keeping you alive. I am most certainly impressed with our jets. And I am proud of the pilots that fly them.

Sounds like you are living in "Leave It to Beaver " land. World doesn't work that way. That is Hollywood.

You stand alone on your own with your statements. You don't speak for all women. There are women that don't support you and indeed, are impressed. How could they not be? the best military in the world.

gypsy


Moderator
Most women, do not support war! how do we know what else would work,besides war technology,it has never been tried/war,jets and fighting are a mans world~(pug world)

oh whatever/that is my belief.. one day war will destroy the world,one that lives by the sword(jet) dies by it!!we need to find other ways/ my last post on the subject~

on one note has there ever been a woman pilot for a fighter jet?

runawayhorses


Owner
I rest my case. Your words says it all to thinking human beings. I need not say another word on this you said it all.

Thank you...

runawayhorses


Owner
Gypsy's not impressed with this thou, she doesn't appreciate the fact we are staying on top of technology with our military to keep her safe. She doesn't get that. She would prefer everyone take picnics instead and not fool with the non-sense of protecting this country with military strength,. Forget about keeping up with science and military tech. Lets just all go on a picnic and forget about it. You know what that attitude sounds like? Ir sounds like a spoiled little American that doesn't know why they are free.

gypsy


Moderator
HAH!! your a little farfetched on that comment//yes one more reply//I never said not defend our country,we just jump into to many countries Crap! it is time for* AMERICA *to take care at home!! the two wars we are in were unnecessary~~once again, War is a man thing!! another haha, my dear man I am far from spoiled..

runawayhorses


Owner
gypsy wrote:HAH!! your a little farfetched on that comment//yes one more reply//I never said not defend our country,we just jump into to many countries Crap! it is time for* AMERICA *to take care at home!! the two wars we are in were unnecessary~~once again, War is a man thing!!
The original point was you are not impressed with our military jets. You stated as such. The new tech is meaningless to you because it doesn't support or have time for picnics or any of the fun things in life you like to do. You feel inconvenienced because you don't want anymore wars..

In fact the military is raining on your parade!!


oh poor pity poo.

gypsy


Moderator
LOL I never used the term military! I said I was not impressed with jets,the sound.does not impress me,I said it is a man thing,I rather be by a peaceful creek/listening to that sound//I do hate war! simple fact//most humane people hate war,would rather see a peaceful resolution!

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy, afganistan was the main terrorist training ground for the ppl that took down the twin towers, that killed thousands, how u can sit and say, we should not have gone into Afghanistan,is beyond me, the Taliban allowed terrorist to train in Afghanistan, and during soccer matches at half time brought out women and men and beheaded them on the field , after half time the game continued, but thats not the reason we went into Afghanistan, it was to stop are atleast inhibit the growth of terrorist training camps. i think we have succeeded in doing that, not totally stopped it but seriously slowed it to a trickle, our intelligence community deserves a pat on the back for rooting out terrorist cells world wide, u have to have air superiority, which means with our jets u own the skys, that way the predator drones can linger over places till they find the ppl they want to take out, predator and ground inteligence found osama bin laudin,we could have took out the building with a drone strike or jet strike, but we wanted to make sure we had the man, so we had to take him so we could match his DNA, to the DNA we had from his family in Saudi Arabia, but it all starts with air superiority, which means the best jets and technology available.to take out all the anti aircraft sights. i would hate to live in this country if we did it ur way, because we would not have a county left..

gypsy


Moderator
I will say it again/we should not have been in these wars,nothing was accomplished/after what eight years?? It is time for our people to come home// The best thing happened when Obama's plan with the smartness of the seals got osama.(ms)which a certain party gave up on~Because they were hiding grounds! for the terrorist,where is ther not a hiding ground??



Last edited by gypsy on Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:28 am; edited 1 time in total

runawayhorses


Owner
gypsy wrote:most humane people hate war,would rather see a peaceful resolution!
If we didn't fight and keep our military on top there would be no humane people. We afforded them the luxury to be humane. We believe enough in freedom so the public can be as informed as you they want to be, and we protect them too even though they don't appreciate it or know why it happens,



Last edited by runawayhorses on Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:27 am; edited 1 time in total

gypsy


Moderator
that was not the subject! the sound of jets does not impress me was~~ no twisting of meaning~ :)

runawayhorses


Owner
gypsy wrote:that was not the subject! the sound of jets does not impress me was~~ no twisting of meaning~ :)
Your just pulling out. That's OK, I got your meaning. Lets have a picnic instead.

gypsy


Moderator
gypsy wrote:Sorry Guys! Jets don't impress me,, I will take a nice peaceful,green beach by a creek ,a picnic,glass of wine,and forget war,noise,pollution, that destroys our atmosphere!
I think it is a woman thing!
my first response,has nothing to do with protection,IT WAS JETS don't impress me~

gypsy


Moderator
picnic sounds good to me//you guys get your shorts in a wad over these subjects!! LOL

gypsy


Moderator
Good night!
I will listen to a jet/ and see if can love it?? I think not!

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy wrote:I will say it again/we should not have been in these wars,nothing was accomplished/after what eight years?? It is time for our people to come home// The best thing happened when Obama's plan with the smartness of the seals got osama.(ms)which a certain party gave up on~Because they were hiding grounds! for the terrorist,where is ther not a hiding ground??

how can u say we should not have gone into Afghanistan. thats the main place the terrorist were training, should we have just let them keep on till we were attacked again? we did have on the ground intelligence assets in Pakistan that helped in getting bin laudin, BUT our drones watched a tall man walk around the yard in that compound many days prior, we watched for a certain amount of time, and his couriers helped in leading us to him.. and helicopters took in the navy seals,
but without air superiority, ( which means jets)the helicopters would not have even been there, it all starts with clearing the skys. or nothing happens.. bin laudin was in Afghanistan till he fled to Pakistan,
but again u have to own the skys to undertake any operation that protects our country,, plain and simple..u said nothing was accomplished which is a lie, we, stopped the terrorist training camps in Afghanistan, and the taliban, nothing is easy, but jets save lives, it would have been a greater loss of life if our troups went in and stayed in without air superiority, or that may be the prior step, and air supremacy is the last and final step to owning the skys, i am going on memory on which is the final achievement. superiority, or supremacy . and this is memory only from desert storm in the early 90s,

gypsy


Moderator
NOT pulling out at all Tyler/

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