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1 Tax the rich to pay for health care on Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:46 pm

gypsy


Moderator
I believe the wealthy should pay, they have had the tax/loophole breaks long enough.
they wouldn't miss it anyway~



Published: Tuesday, November 17, 2009

Tax the rich to pay for health bill, poll finds

By Erica Werner
Associated Press
WASHINGTON — When it comes to paying for a health care overhaul, Americans see just one way to go: Tax the rich.

That finding from a new Associated Press poll will be welcome news for House Democrats, who proposed doing just that in their sweeping remake of the U.S. medical system, which passed earlier this month and would extend coverage to millions of uninsured Americans.

The poll found participants sour on other ways of paying for the health overhaul that is being considered in Congress, including taxing insurers on high-value coverage packages derided by President Barack Obama and Democrats as “Cadillac plans.”

That approach is being weighed in the Senate. It is one of the few proposals in any congressional legislation that analysts say would help reduce the nation’s health expenditures, but it has come under fire from organized labor and has little support in the House.

Lawmakers also are looking at levying new taxes on insurance companies, drug companies and medical device makers. But the only approach that got majority support in the AP poll was a tax on upper-income Americans.

The House bill would impose a 5.4 percent income tax surcharge on individuals making more than $500,000 a year and households making more than $1 million.

The poll tested views on an even more punitive taxation scheme that was under consideration earlier, when the tax would have hit people making more than $250,000 a year. Even at that level the poll showed majority support, with 57 percent in favor and 36 percent opposed.

“You know, I mean, why not? If they have that much money, it should be taxed,” said Mary Pat Rondthaler, 60, of Menlo Park, Calif. “It isn’t the same way that the guy making $21,000 is.”

Not everyone agreed.

“They earn their money. And they shouldn’t have to pay for somebody else. It doesn’t seem fair,” said Emerson Wilkins, 62, of Powder Springs, Ga.

The latest survey was conducted by Stanford University with the nonpartisan Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Overall, the poll found the public split on Congress’ health care plans. In response to some questions, participants said the current system needed to be changed, but they also voiced concerns about the potential impact on their own pocketbooks, preferring to push any new costs onto wealthier Americans.

For example, 77 percent said the cost of health care in the United States was higher than it should be, and 74 percent favored the broad goal of reducing the amount of money paid by patients and their insurers. But 49 percent said any changes made by the government probably would cause them to pay more for health care. Thirty-two percent said it wouldn’t change what they pay, and just 12 percent said they would end up paying less.

With lawmakers searching for new revenue sources to pay for their overhaul legislation, upper-income taxes may be increasingly gaining favor.

Legislation passed by Senate committees did not go that route, but now Majority Leader Harry Reid, who has a free hand in merging two committee-passed bills, is considering raising the payroll tax that goes to Medicare on income above $250,000 a year, officials told The Associated Press last week. Current law sets the tax at 1.45 percent of income, an amount matched by employers.

The Senate Finance Committee bill would tax health insurance plans costing more than $8,000 annually for individuals and $21,000 for families, although those numbers could rise. Union members are lined up against that approach because they fear their benefits could be hurt, and the public doesn’t like it either, the AP poll found. Fifty-six percent were opposed and only 29 percent in favor.

Other payment methods being contemplated on Capitol Hill also met with disapproval. Participants in the poll didn’t support new taxes on medical device makers, drug companies or even insurers — even though they said in response to different questions that drug companies and insurance companies made too much money.

Forty-eight percent in the poll were opposed to new taxes on insurance companies, and 42 percent were in support. Fifty-one percent opposed raising taxes on drug and device makers, while 41 percent supported that approach.

But 72 percent of people polled said insurance companies made too much profit, compared with 23 percent who said they made about the right amount of profit. And 74 percent said drug companies made too much profit, versus 21 percent who said they made about the right amount of profit.

People who told pollsters they generally supported Congress’ health care overhaul plan were also more receptive to new taxes to pay for it. Taxing health care companies, drug companies and equipment manufacturers eked out majority support from that group.

The payment approach that met with least approval by far in the poll was borrowing the money and increasing the federal debt, something Obama has repeatedly vowed not to do. Just 6 percent of people polled said they could support that approach, while 88 percent opposed it.

The poll was based on landline and cell phone interviews with 1,502 adults from Oct. 29 to Nov. 8. It has a margin of error of plus or minus 2.5 percentage points. The interviews were conducted by GfK Roper Public Affairs and Media. Stanford University’s participation was made possible by a grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, which conducts research on all facets of the health care system

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20091117/NEWS02/711179854/1042/LIVING02

2 health bill on Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:53 pm

Guest


Guest
let everyone pay the same percentage over their income.

3 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:01 pm

gypsy


Moderator
Hi Sandy, welcome on board..that is a good point

4 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:41 pm

SSC


Admin
Hello Sandy, sorry but in our economy such a move would never work.

5 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:12 pm

Guest


Guest
SSC wrote:Hello Sandy, sorry but in our economy such a move would never work.
Actually, the IRS could enforce such a plan,but it would be highly regressive. It would drastically reduce the cost of revenue collection,but that expense is just a small percentage of total revenue. A "flat and fair" tax would require that we raise minimum wage again so that the 10%-15% deduction we would need can be absorbed by the lowest income workers. Don't groan. England has a $10/hour min. wage and, up until the global economic crash,they had 5% unemployment and a healthy economy. The way it is now,there are so many special interest loopholes in the current tax code,the only people without an influential lobby are the wage earners. There is no reason to expect Congress to EVER simplify the tax laws. That is THEIR "entitlement program".

6 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:14 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
Sandy P. Raakma wrote:let everyone pay the same percentage over their income.
That sounds like communism.

Who are you anyway? I know you're from the Netherlands, thats fact. I checked your IP, and its not Germany, you're from the Netherlands. You're lying. You are from the Netherlands. Computers don't lie. You don't come off as a person that tells the truth. Your lying. I have the proof. Why you think you can fool me is ridiculous. You foolish idiot.

Watch your step "Sandy P. Raakma" I'm ready to kick you off this site at any minute. In fact, I think I will unless you present a good argument. Get off my site you ridiculous phony. I have the facts that you are not who you pretend to be. I will ban your ass.

You people kill me with your lies and deception. I'll fight you till the end of time.

Sure,,, bring it on. more lies....



---
Damn, this job is tough at times.

7 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:18 am

SSC


Admin
WOW Tyler, what is it with these Netherlands people ? We got one who might utter a faint syllable every 6 months and now another one who is obviously ASHAMED of their homeland..geeeezzzzz what losers....

8 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:31 am

Guest


Guest
yes, in germany we simply pay a percentage over your income. you can still choose between insurers though. In stead of nominal premiums they simply ask percentage premiums.

We have had universal health care since 1883 by the way. HMO's have been outlawed since the 30ies.

In terms of cost, health insurance only costs less than 11% of GDP (compared to 16% in the US). The system might be worth a try if you want to spend less money on health care.

9 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:01 pm

Guest


Guest
Hallo memoon,

meemoon wrote:Don't groan. England has a $10/hour min. wage

Would it surpise you if I told you that germany has a $0/hour min. wage?

10 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:08 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
I can't believe it, you're still maintaining your from Germany???? lmao

You are ignoring MY statements?? Well, for the record, you can't ignore the Admin, its not within your means. You can't do it.. This is a absolute joke, very funny!!

I know you are from the Netherlands, its fact! You are making yourself look ridiculous. This has become totally funny now. Watch this people, you'll get a good laugh. I'll break this fool before your eyes.

11 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:25 pm

Guest


Guest
Dear runawayhorses,

runawayhorses wrote:I know you are from the Netherlands, its fact! You are making yourself look ridiculous. This has become totally funny now. Watch this people, you'll get a good laugh. I'll break this fool before your eyes.

I am scared to hear so much angriness. A fellow belinda carlisle fan who lives just on the other side of the border, showed me this site when I was visiting her once. Last time she reminded me of it again. why are you so angry with me for that? are people from germany not allowed?

12 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:33 pm

runawayhorses


Owner


Yes people from Germany (or any other country) are allowed. We welcome them.

But the fact is you are "Mays" I know it. Your IP is an exact match. Your from the Netherlands and your IP is the same as Mays. .

Now what do you have to say?

13 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:22 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
I will present to you this option. If you would like to come back as "Mays" (you old account - I'll un-ban that account) I would like to bury the hatchet, I never stay mad very long. I like to give second chances, to be nice and humanitarian. Thats my nature. If you feel that strongly to want to post here and read the messages, I must give you a second chance. But you have to come clean. I'll delete the "Sandy P. Raakma" account that we all know is a lie, and restart (un-ban) your Mays account. That's my way of dealing with this situation. You obviously want to post here and read, I appreciate that, but you must come clean first.

I will delete the "Sandy P. Raakma" account after you PM me with your decision. Send a PM.

If you don't accept this decision and don't reply, I'll assume you want to still pretend, and I'll ban your account. If you choose wisely, you can come back as "Mays" with your old account. But first after I (Un-ban) that account you have to login with your user name and password,, if you still remember it. I won't help you that way, either you remember your Mays login info, or your out.

You have 2 days to make a decision.

14 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:46 pm

Guest


Guest
runawayhorses wrote:Yes people from Germany (or any other country) are allowed. We welcome them.

I didn't understand the latter part of your message about ip and mays (?) numbers and such. To be honest I barely know how to do e-mail and a little internet, that's as far as my limited knowledge goes with regards to computers.

Thank you very much for welcoming me. I really appreciate it.

15 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:54 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
Wow, this gets better by the minute.

Ok, I'm going to let you stay on here, you're entertaining if nothing else. We'll see how it goes.

Personally, I'm looking forward to reading what you have say, knowing it's really Mays. lol

Nice Avatar btw..lol

Have a good day.

16 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:08 pm

Guest


Guest
Dear runawayhorses,

runawayhorses wrote:I'll delete the "Sandy P. Raakma" account

Now wait a minute! What on earth is going on here? Who is this Mays woman? If you have a problem some other person, please contact her about it. Why would you want to delete my account, when you have just welcomed me here... Shocked

17 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:23 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
I was trying to find some middle ground with you, but apparently that isn't possible. You are Mays, I know it as fact. Of course, you know it too.

I'm done here with this topic, I'm going to go eat Thanksgiving dinner now. Do yourself a favor and stop arguing with me, its insane. I know who you are, and so does everyone else now. I have the facts to prove it. You have been exposed as Mays, deal with it. I won't debate this any longer. I found you out, I said what I wanted to say, you are now going to shut-up. I won't hear anymore lies. Go back to just reading, your posting sucks and is full of lies. Fuck you. I'll ban you if you respond to this, like I said, I exposed you for who you are and that's it. End of story.

Don't push this, you taken it as far as its going to go.

A warning? Yes, consider it that.

18 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:05 pm

Guest


Guest
Sandy wrote: "Would it surpise you if I told you that germany has a $0/hour min. wage?." /// Not at all. Germany's attitude to wages in general can be best summed up as rationalized socialism. Under Hartz I,II,III, and especially IV, attempts were made to structure and thenceforward scale unemployment benefits and health benefits in a way that reflected losses in the job markets caused by increases in technology induced productivity gains. These principles have been criticized and resisted by those in Germany who wish a guranteed basic income REGARDLESS of skill level,previous work history, or any efforts made towards getting work. Rulings in Federal Courts have vacated some of the important practices and other applications of the Hartz plans and the result is 10.7% chronic unemployment. So why should there be a minimum wage? An unemployed loafer fathering a family of 4 will receive a basic benefit of E445/mo plus an additional amount for the other 3 in his/her houehold PLUS have his/her healthcare premiums paid by the state.Employing a minimum wage in a nation where it pays well NOT to work at all,is obviously unecessary. You see,there are fundamental differences in our attitude towards work,our taxes paid,and benefits received. With our PPP of $47,000 vs. $35,400 for Germany,we don't mind paying more for healthcare because 1, we can afford it, 2, we get the best healthcare in the world, and 3, we work and pay for it. To even suggest that this country of over 300 million spread over 50 seperate states in a geographical area many times that of Germany is to adopt a system like Germany's expresses a massive non sequiter. We have no experience with socialism not because we don't know what it is; we have ALWAYS rejected it because know only too well what it is. We wish you well in your experiments in National Socialism however and certainly hope you do better than you did the last time you good folks "suggested" that other nations adopt your forms of "government" and "healthcare".

19 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:55 am

gypsy


Moderator
How does one say we get the best health care in the
World??
with 40thousand//without heath care

20 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:03 pm

Guest


Guest
gypsy wrote:How does one say we get the best health care in the
World??
with 40thousand//without heath care
Since you absolutely REFUSE to refrain from addressing my posts,I'll respond to this example of your total,appalling,and usual lack of simple knowledge and your Demo-duck-speak and then hope you will just stay the fuck away from my posts in future: Did you mean 40 million? No, don't answer that. I hope to never read another goddam post directly from you. I can say we have the best healthcare in the world because we do and the statistics show that we do. You, having seaweed for brains, will not be troubled with those numbers since you clearly can't "cypher" in numbers larger than 3 or 4.I will offer this simple,food based analogy: In our healthcare "restaurant" some must stand in line and get hamburgers and fries. 85% sit at a nice table,get a menu,and order what the doctor says they need. And they get the best that the world has to offer. This nation leads the world in the development and production of the best healthcare technology available, A PROVEN FACT. People from the world over come HERE to learn how to cook in OUR healthcare "restaurant". Some, including the wealthy and some with "golden" plans, will be taken to a private dining room,get 2 or 3 waiters,and a fine appetizer. Now in the Obamacare system, NOBODY gets a menu. EVERYBODY waits.And why? Because the chefs and waiters are too goddamn busy serving any and everybody who simply walks in off the fucking street. I don't care if some have to wait for their burgers and fries. And I don't care if some are getting fine wine and steak tartar. I want the pork chops and asparagus I ordered,expected,and worked for all my life. And I want 'em right fucking NOW,not when some government commitee says I will get them,if I can get them at all. People are not dying of starvation on street corners so rationing is NOT necessay. We eat real good in our "restaurant";better than any people in the world. LOOK AT OUR FAT ASSES! And I certainly don't want some collge boy cum Chicago reared bullshitter,some California born Tupperware hustler, and some political lizard like Harry Reid changing a system we Americans have foght wars for and worked like hell for to build and protect. I don't want people who are giving the business away so they can suck votes from derelicts, the worthless,and imbiciles like YOU. You don't like name calling? You don't like being insulted? Then don't respond to my posts you dumb motherfucker YOU!

21 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:15 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
Gypsy, I told you not to directly respond to Moons posts. I meant it. Stay clear of him.

22 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:16 pm

gypsy


Moderator
ok no problem
I also meant 40 million

23 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:38 pm

Guest


Guest
meemoon wrote:Germany's attitude to wages in general can be best summed up as rationalized socialism.

If there is no minimum wage, there is no government interference there. That's the way I like it. I don't like it when the government says that I have to pay a worker at least $7.50 an hour.

meemoon wrote:To even suggest that this country of over 300 million spread over 50 seperate states in a geographical area many times that of Germany is to adopt a system like Germany's expresses a massive non sequiter.

As far as I know, the minimum standards for health care coverage is set by European directives, which apply to 500 million people. So surface area of a jurisdiction might not be any impeding factor for imposing universal rules.

But I fully agree with you. We should have no government interference at all. We don't need some bureaucrats to tell us what is best for us. If we just leave everything to the people, it will eventually turn out perfectly. People should decide for themselves if they want to buy insurance, or keep the money to themselves.

24 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:33 pm

Guest


Guest
"As far as I know, the minimum standards for health care coverage is set by European directives, which apply to 500 million people. So surface area of a jurisdiction might not be any impeding factor for imposing universal rules." /// No it wouldn't be,nor did I say it would. The key factor is "50 states", i.e., 50 seperate jurisdictions with absolutely NO connecting mandate to provide healthcare of any kind to anyone (other than prisoners,soldiers,or anyone in state custody or care). Not a dozen or so states applying "universal european directives". We abandoned "universal european directives" in 1776, and fortunately so. In the intervening 233 years, our people watched with bemusement,puzzlement,and sometimes utter horror as europeans tried every type of government and slaughtered each other in the 10's of millions. After decades of revisionist historians and media misinforming europeans as to their truly murderous past, this revisionism requires that Americans be defined as a people needful of a european example. No thanks!

25 Re: Tax the rich to pay for health care on Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:01 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
Sandy P. Raakma wrote: To be honest I barely know how to do e-mail and a little internet, that's as far as my limited knowledge goes with regards to computers.
I think its interesting to note you can double quote someone like your posts above very well. Some people here I would guess don't know how because they never do it. Its tricky and takes some practice, but you do it quite well. Seems like you're probably better on the computer than you say you are. Of course I can too, its easy to me, but you can do it too. For someone that claims doesn't know much about computers and can barely do email, you do pretty good with copy and pasting double quotes.

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