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rosco 357


Veteran
MY WORDS:well a General he aint, can u imagine him in WWII watching the weather like IKE did deciding when to time D-Day, something aint right. and i think its playing politics is what it is. sometimes u see ppl like obama, and the masses are mesmerized.but he aint done anything.all it is about is his color. but go back in history, and see real hard decisions men had to make. hard decisions, be it MIDWAY. or JFK stopping a russian ship as it closed in on cuba, those types of decisions. i dont dislike obama as a person ,but i think he is full of fluff, make a decision one way or the other, dont worry about pissing off the left or right, decide, he aint up to it.

From The Sunday Times
October 18, 2009
76 days since request for more troops, Obama accused of stalling
Christina Lamb in Washington
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6879511.ece

IN Afghanistan they would call it a shura, the traditional tribal way of listening to elders’ views before reaching a consensus. In Washington, where President Barack Obama has now held five war councils, they are starting to call it dithering.

With another council on the Afghan war scheduled for this week, US officials admit it could be November before a decision is finally taken on whether to agree to General Stanley McChrystal’s request for more troops. One participant revealed that the protagonists have not yet discussed troop numbers.

Latest polls show a majority of Americans now disapprove of Obama’s handling of a war which may come to define his presidency. Many senior members of his own party are in open revolt.

Senator Robert Byrd, at 91 a Democratic institution, was so incensed that he dragged himself from his hospital bed last week to make a 13-minute speech. “Does it really take 100,000 troops to find Osama Bin Laden?” he wondered. “And how much will this cost? How much in terms of more dollars? How much in terms of American blood?”

Obama has kept his own views to himself, although he is thought to be leaning towards acceptance that more forces will have to be added to the 68,000 US troops already committed. But his professorial style of asking for position papers and hearing all views is leading to accusations of drift.

“It has been 76 days since General McChrystal submitted his review to the administration requesting additional forces, and the clock continues to tick,” complained Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, the senior Republican on the House foreign affairs committee.

The slow pace, explained one adviser, is explained by the fact that each meeting focuses on a different part of the problem. “They are methodically going through all the information,” he said.

“The discussion itself is not unexpected,” said a Pentagon spokesman. “It’s not as if we were expecting a rubber stamp.”

The White House gives away little after each session, barely changing the adjectives used to describe them. The first was “rigorous and deliberate”, the second “comprehensive”, the next “robust” and the last “fairly comprehensive”.

Behind the scenes a number of big personalities are jostling for power. The man said to have the president’s ear is Robert Gates, the steely defence secretary who served the previous administration of George W Bush and who believes more troops are necessary.

Obama also respects the views of General James Jones, the national security adviser, for his on-the-ground experience of Afghanistan from 2003 to 2006, when he was Nato’s supreme allied commander for Europe. He is said to be wary of sending more men. “Afghanistan is a country that’s quite large and swallows up a lot of people,” he said recently.

The biggest tussle is between McChrystal and Vice-President Joe Biden, who argues against escalation. Biden, who wants more emphasis on Pakistan, pointed out in a paper entitled Counterterrorism Plus that the real threat is not the Taliban but Al-Qaeda, whose leaders have moved over the border.

Biden, 66, seen as the in-house pessimist, has adopted a subtle campaign to make his case, with aides letting slip to journalists the extent of his influence over his inexperienced commander-in-chief.

While McChrystal was slapped down for unwisely choosing a lecture in London to press his point, there has been no attempt by the White House to rein in Biden. Yet with Obama leaning towards sending more troops, the vice-president seems to be heading for defeat.

Although Biden prides himself on his foreign policy experience, a key factor in his selection, critics point out that his judgments have proved questionable in the past.

“When was the last time Biden was right about anything?” asked Thomas Ricks, a military writer affiliated with the Center for a New American Security, a think tank founded by Democrats.

Biden voted against the Gulf war of 1991, voted for the Iraq invasion of 2003, proposed partitioning Iraq into three sections in 2006, and in 2007 opposed the troop surge that was later credited with turning Iraq around.

Whether or not he succeeds in convincing Obama of his case, nobody can dispute that he has changed the nature of the debate. Biden reflects widespread scepticism among Democrats about investing more heavily in an eight-year war that the US and its allies seem to be losing.

Jim McGovern, a Democratic congressman from Massachusetts, is pushing a bill that calls for an exit strategy. He argues that extra American troops will only antagonise the Afghans and help the Taliban win more recruits.

Even some Republicans are beginning to question further military commitment. George Will, the conservative columnist, has advocated a reduction in forces, arguing that Washington should wash its hands of a country where travelling is “like walking through the Old Testament”.

SSC


Admin
Wonder how many lives he is responsible for losing due to his lack of action.

gypsy


Moderator
he(Obama) will make the right decision /
my opinion is work with what we have over there an strive for a new /Strategy/ better to have a plan instead of rushing in like when we first invaded Iraq, an Afghanistan
What we have now as for as a plan is apparently not working



Last edited by runawayhorses on Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : removed quote)

rosco 357


Veteran
duhh? that is what they are trying to do GEN. McChrystal has made his plan , but how long must he wait for an answer. thats the point there is a plan to change the staus quo. its foot dragging plain and simple,

rosco 357


Veteran
SSC wrote:Wonder how many lives he is responsible for losing due to his lack of action.

exactly,,

gypsy


Moderator
rosco 357 wrote:duhh? that is what they are trying to do GEN. McChrystal has made his plan , but how long must he wait for an answer. thats the point there is a plan to change the staus quo. its foot dragging plain and simple,
yes McChrysral has a plan to win over the people, teach an train them,I agree, he is a good man I like him,I think 20 thousand troops were sent over in the spring. I think I am right on that~?
I don't think it is foot dragging, not plain or simple.an we don't know all of the if's or ands??I think he wants to make the right choice,he is methodical(Obama) Americans are tired of the war, Democrats.an some Republicans don't think more troops will help.as we discussed before fighting for eight years has not put us any closer to an answer,or a win, it already has been determined we can't win or maybe even contain them (terrorists) I think the wise choice,is to utilize what we have sent or half the amount requested an they be trainers,re build the infrastructure

just my thought/opinions only

SSC


Admin
rosco 357 wrote:duhh? that is what they are trying to do GEN. McChrystal has made his plan , but how long must he wait for an answer. thats the point there is a plan to change the staus quo. its foot dragging plain and simple,

The only thing they seem to be waiting on is the out come of the election there, over 1/3 of the votes have been thrown out thus causing a run-off..In the mean time Obama IS dragging his uncertain feet on the ground, another life lost today, wonder how many more ??? McCrystal wants troops there now, that is the mans job to know what is needed, and to state his point and expect action.

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