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rosco 357


Veteran
Olbermann glosses over detail on the Baucus plan
Half-True

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/17/keith-olbermann/olbermann-glosses-over-detail-baucus-plan/

When it comes to health reform, all eyes have been watching the powerful Senate Finance Committee. The committee has been trying to reach consensus between Democrats and Republicans.

The committee released its findings on Wednesday in the form of a "Chairman's mark," a report that sets out the parameters of legislation.

None of the committee Republicans would support the bill at this stage. And some Democrats didn't like it much either.

Liberal commentator Keith Olbermann of MSNBC savaged the proposal on his show Countdown that night, reserving particular criticism for committee chairman Sen. Max Baucus, a Democrat from Montana.

"If it were up to Senator Max Baucus, middle-class families would be forced literally forced to pay far more on health care than they already do right now," Olberman said. "Thirteen percent of what they make could be deducted directly from their paychecks and mainlined to insurance companies, the so-called 'Max Tax.'"

A few moments later he described the plan in more detail.

Baucus' plan, he said, "would give coverage to 30 million Americans who currently do not have any, first, by extending Medicaid, the state-federal insurance program for the poor; next, by providing government subsidies to modest-income families and individuals to help them buy over-the-counter coverage. ... That means any individual making more than $32,500, or any family of four making more than $66,150, is on their own subject to the 'Max Tax' of 13 percent."

For families earning $66,000, he added, "that is $700 a month they'd have to pay. If the families do not buy that insurance at that rate, they would be fined nearly half that amount."

We wanted to see if he was accurately describing the plan as a 13 percent "tax" for the middle class.

We found Olbermann got a lot right - especially in his lengthier explanation but he also left out details that would provide a fuller picture of the Baucus plan.

He was right about the expansion of Medicaid. Anyone who makes less than 133 percent of the poverty level would be eligible for Medicaid under the new plan. Right now, in addition to being poor, you also have to be either elderly, pregnant, blind or disabled.

Olbermann's claim about the 13 percent "tax" is based on the caps that limit how much people would pay for health insurance. Baucus' plan caps the premiums for those who earn 133 percent to 400 percent of the poverty level. Some of these people would get credits to make up the difference between the caps and what the insurance would cost. If they get a credit, they would send their premium payments to the federal government, which would then pay the insurer.

The caps on how much people would have to pay for insurance are based on their income. The caps gradually increase from an estimated 4.7 percent for people at the lowest income levels, up to 13 percent of income for people who earn 300 percent of the poverty level. They stay at the 13 percent level up to 400 percent of the poverty level.

Olbermann used the example of a family of four at 300 percent of the poverty line. According to the plan, the family would have income of $66,150 and pay premiums of $8,600 a year, or $716 a month. So Olbermann's numbers are solid.

We have to add a few caveats here, though.

Olbermann twice called these payments a tax. They are not a tax. They are a cap on premiums paid for health insurance. Other Democratic health reform plans in Congress have similar requirements that "force" people to buy insurance or pay a penalty. Their caps on premiums are more generous than 13 percent, but they still require people to pay a percentage of their income for insurance.

For a detailed comparison of the three Democratic bills on this point, the left-leaning Center on Budget and Policy Priorities has created a handy chart . The center has criticized the Baucus plan for not being as generous for people of modest incomes as the other Democratic plans.

Another caveat to Olbermann's remarks is that under Baucus' plan, none of this applies to people who already have coverage some other way. If people of modest incomes get coverage through work, for example, they keep paying whatever it is they pay now. They would not have to pay additional premiums or a penalty.

Finally, we want to note that it is very difficult to make a direct comparison of how much people who now buy insurance on their own would pay under the reform plans, because the proposals would substantially change requirements for what medical treatment must be covered.

We hoped to either confirm or refute Olbermann's statement that families would be forced "to pay far more on health care than they already do right now." But if they buy on the individual market, we're not sure what they're paying now. We looked for current data on this point, but were unable to find it. Right now, standards for minimum coverage vary greatly from state to state. This state-to-state variation also makes it difficult to find current data on what an "average" price for a family of four pays for an "average" plan. Obviously, if a family is uninsured now, they're going to pay more to get coverage.

So back to the statement we are fact-checking. Olbermann said that for middle-class families, the Baucus plan would mean that "13 percent of what they make could be deducted directly from their paychecks and mainlined to insurance companies, the so-called 'Max Tax.'"

He's right that for people who are uninsured now, the upper limit would be 13 percent, and that money would go to insurance companies. But it's to pay for coverage they don't have now not a tax and some people would pay less. And all of the plans under consideration in Congress require people to pay something for coverage. So we rate Olbermann's statement Half True.

SSC


Admin
This and every other plan being considered is a statement that the Gov. will be controling your life literally. We will be herded to lines to recieve health care, We no longer have options we have penalties same as taxes. Humana had the right idea, to try and inform people but the Gov. squashed that idea.As of today there are 500 amendments to these health care bills. Even Snow is reluctant to approve anything on the table now..

runawayhorses


Owner
SSC wrote:the Gov. will be controling your life literally. We will be herded to lines to recieve health care,
At least we will eventually get health care of some kind, the ones who been cheated out of it so far. The system now is garbage.

Lines or not, we will get it and rightfully so. Its certainly better than not getting it. But I guess that depends on your perspective, don't ya think?

I'm all for the Obama health care plan, its gonna work.

gypsy


Moderator
runawayhorses wrote:
SSC wrote:the Gov. will be controling your life literally. We will be herded to lines to recieve health care,
At least we will eventually get health care of some kind, the ones who been cheated out of it so far. The system now is garbage.

Lines or not, we will get it and rightfully so. Its certainly better than not getting it. But I guess that depends on your perspective, don't ya think?

I'm all for the Obama health care plan, its gonna work.
I agree Tyler, after all the lies/myths from the conservatives an Fox news it has been a long haul,Ibelieve something will pass, that is the first step,then it can always be improved..

SSC


Admin
So Gyp you are saying just to go along with Obama you would approve an incomplete bill to be passed and let them fill in the blanks at a later date...Its not just Fox..CNN was diging into the Medicare cuts tonight to pay for what ever bill they try and pass..It doesn't look good for Medicare nor Humana right now..I wouldn't be foolish enough to risk my health care plan for any reason.

runawayhorses


Owner
Well, at least you have a health care plan, some of us don't.

SSC


Admin
I sympathize with those who don't but I can't help but wonder why ?? I have worked since I was 14, my health is good . I had no problem getting good coverage. If a person has a legit health problem and worked why isn't that person covered by existing medical programs, there are numerous out there to apply for. The burden of proof is on the person but if a problem is genuine then there should be no problem.

gypsy


Moderator
yes SSC that is exactly what i believe,we need it.
I think the mafia insurance companies need to be put down and all those politicians who lobby for them,an get a kick back, go down with them..
fill in blanks no! that is not what will happen the major bill will be already filled in, but improvements are always welcome, it is time.
Kennedy had worked on this for many years we need it done, not only for those with out care which is priority,but to stove up the economy and to provide jobs,every other major country has this we lag behind,it is time we caught up in this category..also medicare is this countries biggest expense with a reform bill that will be less an will help pay for health reform everyone in this country should be covered, an no one in this country should go hungry, or with out help

SSC


Admin
This will never be passed if it needs to have correction done , this bill has to be totally correct the first time. Leaving no loopholes for taxes to be snuck in, remember this isn't suppost to cost people a dime, laughable for sure..Obama can't get his own people to support the bills as they stand now. Maybe Kennedy tried for what 40 years to get something passed well it obviously didn't work in all those years. It's not going to happen now.

runawayhorses


Owner
SSC wrote:The burden of proof is on the person but if a problem is genuine then there should be no problem.
That's where you're wrong, there is a problem and it comes in the hands of the people making the judgment call, the ones who allow or deny you to get approved or SSI or any kind of insurance. The system has failed me personally, but I've exposed myself enough already about healthcare, so I won't go much farther with this, but I will say I been cheated by the system and I have no way of getting HC unless this health care plan goes thru. Its my only option now. I worked all my life too, had health care plans, but when I got sick I lost it all, no way to recover it or get someone else to fix and help my situation, as I said before, the system is ass-backwards, and will be corrected by Obama's plan. This kind of plan was inevitable, it had to happen, and it will happen. People are sick and tired of being cheated, and as a result people die needlessly, its absurd, and this country can do better, I'm counting on it.

SSC


Admin
If Obama had a plan written in stone that was logical for the care of the masses that is one thing, but what we have is every Tom, Dick and Harry writing their own bill and none of them are in the long run for the American people, we will be burdened to the tune of 3trillion and growing to pay for this , I just don't believe all the cuts to Medicare will pay for an albatross this huge..Taxes will be the only answer, just what Obama promised not to do.

gypsy


Moderator
where is stated that medicare will be cut? that is another myth I assume? from what I HAVE READ MEDICARE WILL NOT BE CUT.. the health reform will be the major supplier of care which will cut the highest thing we pay for in this country~~ i put that here in one forum.. well I have voiced my thoughts,I hope it passes,an I think it will ..I have a article/ video of a blue dog who is fighting against health reform I will put that here video whenIi return

gypsy


Moderator
http://www.openleft.com/diary/15185/shaming-blue-dog-mike-ross-and-you-can-help


Change Congress founder Lawrence Lessig -- with whom I work on campaign finance reform issues -- announced a new TV ad on Friday shaming "Blue Dog" leader Mike Ross on the public option.

In the ad, Keith Olbermann calls out Ross for his special-interest contributions -- and then recent poll numbers show that Ross is siding with those interests against his own constituents.

It's caused quite the buzz. Within hours, it was covered by NBC, ABC, Politico, Huffington Post, The Young Turks, Roll Call...and Rachel Maddow.

You can chip in here to keep this ad on TV in Arkansas -- holding Mike Ross accountable back home.

In addition to calling out Ross on the public option, this ad gets to the root of the problem: our corrupt campaign finance system, calling for Mike Ross to support fundamental reform.

Lessig's announcement of the ad -- and Rachel Maddow's clip -- are below the fold.
AdamGreen :: Shaming Blue Dog Mike Ross (And You Can Help)

From Lessig's email to Change Congress members Friday:

Today, we are announcing our latest TV ad -- calling out the "Blue Dog Democrat" leader, Rep. Mike Ross (Arkansas), for his special-interest contributions from the health industry.


This ad includes a substantial cameo by Keith Olbermann, and for those of you who know my voice, you'll recognize a certain narrator.

Congressman Ross recently switched his position on the public health insurance option -- opposing it, despite the fact that Arkansas voters favor it 55% to 38%. He's also taken over $900,000 from special interests that oppose reform.

We obtained footage of Ross complaining about how much money he needs to raise to get elected -- so in the ad, we challenge him to support the bipartisan bill in Congress to replace special-interest-funded elections with citizen-funded elections.

We need to raise $15,000 to air our ad 200 times in Arkansas -- can you chip in?

If we surpass that goal, we'll air the ad in Washington, DC as well -- so all of Congress sees it.

This ad is bound to make a splash. Any help getting it on the air is most appreciated. Thanks for helping to Change Congress.

runawayhorses


Owner
SSC wrote:If Obama had a plan written in stone that was logical for the care of the masses that is one thing, but what we have is every Tom, Dick and Harry writing their own bill and none of them are in the long run for the American people, we will be burdened to the tune of 3trillion and growing to pay for this , I just don't believe all the cuts to Medicare will pay for an albatross this huge..Taxes will be the only answer, just what Obama promised not to do.
I think the plan has been explained last week in detail. Everything is on the table now. And I don't remember anything being mentioned about cuts to Medicare, none. In fact, I heard just the opposite, they are saying the plan will keep people who are on Medicare the same, no changes if that's what they desire. People have "choices" and options. Obama has stressed this point over and over again, made it clear.

SSC


Admin
According to CNN at 5:30 this evening 120 Billion will be cut from Medicare Advantage coverage. This was what Humana was trying to inform people of when they came under a gag order from the White House.

runawayhorses


Owner
SSC wrote:According to CNN at 5:30 this evening 120 Billion will be cut from Medicare Advantage coverage. This was what Humana was trying to inform people of when they came under a gag order from the White House.
The bottom line is, Medicare will remain it tack, if you have it now, you will continue to have it. This new plan that will go into effect, can be better understood if one realized why it needs to happen, its our priorities in this life that influence our decisions everyday, whats inportant to us, and why we think some laws/rules/plans should pass, no matter WHAT the cost, we have to make moral decisions that are family driven, caring for one another, and what we do as a nation as far as "Healthcare" is reflective of that..Right now as it stands, in this country, we allow people to die for lack of adequate Health Care, becuase of ever increasing costs. If you can't afford it and can't pay the outstanding premiums, you're dead. End of story, they won't fix you. That's not very caring and nice, of course not.

Other people, for example, that can't get insured becuase they been cheated out of it by the insurance company's now, will delight in Obama's Health Care Plan, That's humanitarianism in action. Caring for people at any cost, yes, this should be a priority. And it will pass.

SSC


Admin
Within the next 10 years 100 Billion will be cut from Medicare Advantage, adding an increase to the deficit over 20 years of 239 Billion. But Obama gave his word there would be no cost increase that would effect the deficit. This and many other uncertainties in any of the bills will be the nails in the coffin of health care.

gypsy


Moderator
runawayhorses wrote:
SSC wrote:According to CNN at 5:30 this evening 120 Billion will be cut from Medicare Advantage coverage. This was what Humana was trying to inform people of when they came under a gag order from the White House.
The bottom line is, Medicare will remain it tack, if you have it now, you will continue to have it. This new plan that will go into effect, can be better understood if one realized why it needs to happen, its our priorities in this life that influence our decisions everyday, whats inportant to us, and why we think some laws/rules/plans should pass, no matter WHAT the cost, we have to make moral decisions that are family driven, caring for one another, and what we do as a nation as far as "Healthcare" is reflective of that..Right now as it stands, in this country, we allow people to die for lack of adequate Health Care, becuase of ever increasing costs. If you can't afford it and can't pay the outstanding premiums, you're dead. End of story, they won't fix you. That's not very caring and nice, of course not.

Other people, for example, that can't get insured becuase they been cheated out of it by the insurance company's now, will delight in Obama's Health Care Plan, That's humanitarianism in action. Caring for people at any cost, yes, this should be a priority. And it will pass.

gypsy


Moderator
runawayhorses wrote:
SSC wrote:According to CNN at 5:30 this evening 120 Billion will be cut from Medicare Advantage coverage. This was what Humana was trying to inform people of when they came under a gag order from the White House.
The bottom line is, Medicare will remain it tack, if you have it now, you will continue to have it. This new plan that will go into effect, can be better understood if one realized why it needs to happen, its our priorities in this life that influence our decisions everyday, whats inportant to us, and why we think some laws/rules/plans should pass, no matter WHAT the cost, we have to make moral decisions that are family driven, caring for one another, and what we do as a nation as far as "Healthcare" is reflective of that..Right now as it stands, in this country, we allow people to die for lack of adequate Health Care, becuase of ever increasing costs. If you can't afford it and can't pay the outstanding premiums, you're dead. End of story, they won't fix you. That's not very caring and nice, of course not.

Other people, for example, that can't get insured becuase they been cheated out of it by the insurance company's now, will delight in Obama's Health Care Plan, That's humanitarianism in action. Caring for people at any cost, yes, this should be a priority. And it will pass.
I agree again Tyler, my understanding is medicare recipients will not be cut, the health care will the secondary if one waants it but will be able to keep medicare.
I state again the most costly thing our country faces is the cost of medicare, the cost will be cut but not the coverage..I don't mind paying taxes, as long as the wealthy pay their share an that is the ones who will be taxed,it will go back like Clinton had it! Bush is the one who gave all the rich tax breaks, an loop holes, that will be eliminated is my understanding~

again it needs to be done,no one should die in this country because they can't get health care or not have insurance..

SSC


Admin
There is no way Medicare will remain intact, not at the rate these cuts are being introduced, there will be a total revamp of coverage, fees and available doctors, insurance companies would be a thing of the past, in doing this the gov. can charge at will whatever they chose to.
There is no reason people in the US should be dying now, care is out there, no hospital is allowed to turn away an ill person, if they are deemed ill enough to require advanced treatment then the fed and state programs will pick up. The only stumbling block is financial status. Certain guidelines must be met. If drug addicts and alcoholics can receive medical treatment and in some cases a check then why can't the rest ? I am not sure the system is failing as much as people are not working the system to its full benefit.

gypsy


Moderator
the records show 45 million without health care, an can't get it, I say the insurance companies fault..again i think it will pass,,if not then Obama says we will try again..

runawayhorses


Owner
SSC wrote:
There is no reason people in the US should be dying now, care is out there, no hospital is allowed to turn away an ill person, if they are deemed ill enough to require advanced treatment then the fed and state programs will pick up.
Oh Yes, they sure will turn you away if your problem to get you back on your feet and back to work is not covered, (i.e. hip replacements, knee discomforts, etc.) The list is large of things they will not consider and emergency to get you back on your feet and Medicare will NOT cover you. You're on your own.

Accept the reality people die becuase they can't afford to live, the medical cost is too high, they simply can't afford it becuase they have an (illness) that is not covered, so there is a very prominent and outstanding reason why people can't get the coverage that is supposedly "out there" is becuase its not covered. Obama's new Health Care Plan that will go into effect, will make sure everyone gets what they need, and is covered. I like that.

SSC


Admin
gypsy wrote:the records show 45 million without health care, an can't get it, I say the insurance companies fault..again i think it will pass,,if not then Obama says we will try again..

Of the 45 million 15 million are illegals another 40% are those who chose to not buy insurance, but now there will be penalities for not having insurance, the Gov. will fine you in other words it was 3800.00 now they are bargaining down to 1900.00. The sheep will be led 2 by 2.

gypsy


Moderator
Wrong ssc another conservative myth

SSC


Admin
If Medicare fails to cover then Medicaid is there, only problem is you have to be needy, no more then 3thousand in the bank and only one property, other wise it is considered you have wealth enough to buy your own coverage of some type, it might not be 100% but it would be something to get treatment.. If someone waits until a condition becomes pre-existant then it is that persons bad, pre thinking is the key to health coverage. Proper budgeting and saving are the key factors.

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