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SSC


Admin
Study: Health Care Reform Mandate Will Punish Employers, Kill Jobs
Under the provision, known as the play-or-pay mandate, another 10.2 million employees will face stunted wages and the loss of their benefits as employers try to find ways to fund the mandates.
By Shannon Bream

FOXNews.com
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/27/study-health-care-reform-mandate-punish-employers-kill-jobs/?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a16:g12:r5:c0.240279:b27386766:z0
Thursday, August 27, 2009

A provision in President Obama's health care reform plan that requires businesses to offer health insurance to their workers or face a federal tax would cost employers at least $49 billion dollars a year, putting 5.2 million employees at risk of unemployment or underemployment, according to a new study.

"Health care reform is not going to be free," said economist Mark Wilson, who authored the study, which was commissioned by the conservative Heritage Foundation.

Under the provision, known as the play-or-pay mandate, another 10.2 million employees will face stunted wages and the loss of their benefits as employers try to find ways to fund the mandates.

"Those will be a difficult decision for them to make and they're also going to have to decide to the extent they can raise prices and pass the cost onto consumers," Wilson said.

But supporters of Obama's health reform plan say under the current system, thousands already are losing their health coverage or jobs because of the enormous costs employers are bearing.

"What we need to think about in health reform is how to make the system more efficient, how to make sure the system is protecting jobs, and that's exactly what health reform will do," said Peter Harbage, a health policy analyst with the liberal Center for American Progress.

White House spokesman Bill Burton said Thursday that without health reform the entire U.S. economy faces ruin.

"If we don't do something, not only is health care going to be in crisis, but the deficit will -- we just will not be on a fiscally sustainable path as it relates to the deficit," he said.

And as the financial realities of health reform are coming together there are questions about why tort reform isn't part of the package.

At a town hall hosted by Democratic Rep. Jim Moran this week, one person demanded to know why the threat of medical lawsuits couldn't be reduced.

"There's $200 million dollars in savings over 10 years if we had tort reform and nobody loses but the lawyers," the person said before shouting, "Why have we not even considered that?"

Former Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean, a proponent of health reform, responded that tort reform would create more enemies for lawmakers as they try to pass a reform bill.

"Plain and simple truth," he said.

The president of the American Medical Association says without more protections for doctors in the courtroom they will continue to order tests that may be unnecessary and drive up health care costs simply to protect themselves.

Guest


Guest
YYEEEHHAAAA John Dean. You screwed up and told the truth, The American Trial Lawyers Association is a heavy political contributor and of course, 94% of that money went to Democratic candidates. The fix is in and paid for.

rosco 357


Veteran
im not really going to post on healthcare till they have a final bill, and read the details , then judge it. i only posted because i thought i heard small companies would be helped from the government on paying for health care, and something about companies under 25 employees would not be affected somehow, now i know this is a lame post lMAO since i have no detail,and i very well may be mistaken. but i have worked for machine shops that had only like 6 machinist.but they provide good health insurance, but i never would ever work for a company that did not cover their employees. i really never have bought into the idea the drs use as being sued.i think its just a tool they use in politics, as i have said i was on a jury, where a doctor was sued. doctors have very powerful lawyers, its hard to beat a doctor..
but the one i was on we gave a verdict to the patient, as it was clear the dr made a terrible mistake, but this was like a 12 surgeon group that did cario thorastics surgery. so i know they had really good insurance and makes tons of money,. one potential juror that was an insurance adjuster, said while we waited on who would be picked said that this insurance company the dr had , never settles out of court and fights to the bitter end. he was not chosen since he was an insurance adjuster, anyway there are times drs need to be sued, my mom said after i was grown , that she would have sued our family drs, for not sending me to a specialist when at 5 i lost my eardrum due to trauma, but our family dr , my mom went to school with him and his wife , so that was the reason she said she did not sue, it was the first time i even knew the thought of suing crossed her mind, but if he had sent me when the trauma to my ear happened to a specialist it could have saved my eardrum.. but back then ppl did not go to specialist like ppl do now on first visits. that was over 50 years ago,she took the word of our family dr,and my ear was bleeding , later he did give her a list of specialist to take me to when i got worse in some months. he never told her to keep my ear dry, so i went swimming on vacation, but by then it was to late, and i had no eardrum at all , nothing , take care



Last edited by rosco 357 on Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

runawayhorses


Owner
Wow rosco I didn't realize that happened to you, so you can't hear in one ear? I had 1 eardrum burst when I was little, I had a ear infection and we were on vacation at the beach, so I didn't tell my parents my ear was hurting becuase I know they wouldn't let me swim in the ocean, so I never told them, until my eardrum burst.

Later, I was scheduled to have surgery on my ear to repair the eardrum, but when they took a look at it again (weeks later) the eardrum had mended itself, somehow the flap or whatever went back into position and it healed like that, sorta like a welding job..lol I was very young so it healed fast, I was lucky. I have about maybe 10% hearing loss in that ear, but I've gotten used to it and don't notice it anymore.

I guess you might say it was a miracle, at least that's what the dr said.

SSC


Admin
Very interesting Tyler, I do believe it was a miracle...Many years ago my father has a blockage in his heart, medicine was nothing like today, when he did go in for surgery they ran more tests and found his heart had grown its own bypass, they say this is rare but not unheard of..he was entered into some sort of record book and sent home..

gypsy


Moderator
my brother had by pass done 10 years ago,when they went in to do the surgery, his heart had already started growing a bypass but they went ahead an did the surgery because he had five blockages he was only 47 years old

rosco 357


Veteran
runawayhorses wrote:Wow rosco I didn't realize that happened to you, so you can't hear in one ear? I had 1 eardrum burst when I was little, I had a ear infection and we were on vacation at the beach, so I didn't tell my parents my ear was hurting becuase I know they wouldn't let me swim in the ocean, so I never told them, until my eardrum burst.

Later, I was scheduled to have surgery on my ear to repair the eardrum, but when they took a look at it again (weeks later) the eardrum had mended itself, somehow the flap or whatever went back into position and it healed like that, sorta like a welding job..lol I was very young so it healed fast, I was lucky. I have about maybe 10% hearing loss in that ear, but I've gotten used to it and don't notice it anymore.

I guess you might say it was a miracle, at least that's what the dr said.

i was 5 and i had a Q tip in my ear my mom told me i said it was a horn but i dont remember that, i jumped on my sisters bed and it went through my eardrum, she took me as i said to our family doctor, he looked and sent me home.after i did some swimming while on vacation, im not sure of the amount of time, that passed, my ear started to drain, thats when the family dr finally sent me to a specialist, my mom and dad were in the room, the dr said this kid has no eardrum at all nothing, and he looked at my mom, and said and i quote " keep them damn things out of his ear"he was angry, as before i did that she had been cleaning my ear. well it took taking my adnoises out to finally get my ear dry after many months , then he had to wait for a year or 2 till the vein in my arm was bigger, he then operated on it and made a eardrum from the skin of the main blood vessel where they usually draw blood, it did not cover it all so a couple years later he did another operation so that was 2 of my summers down the drain, i still to this day have a 10 percent hole in my eardrum, i have to always keep it dry, just a drop of anything wet i have an instant infection, since earplugs have gotten better, i do swim and ride the seadoo, i use the foam roll up ones that then expanded into ur ear, they work good, but as a kid the dr would not allow ear plugs, and as a kid i could no longer even swim in a pool i just had to watch as my uncle had a pool and we had family partys, i have a 65 percent loss of hearing in that ear, but if i close off my good ear i really cant hear much at all, ,,for some reason it make hard impacted wax, i go to the ear dr once a year, and sit in the chair as he has a wire with like small hook or something on the end, he always tells me not to move as he is right on my eardrum, if i wait too long he has problems so they told me once a year...

SSC


Admin
Wow Rosco I am sure that was traumatic as a kid..

rosco 357


Veteran
i was 9 when i accepted Jesus as my savior and made it public one sunday morning , and being baptist, my dr would not allow me to be baptized, because of submersion under water, but u dont have to be baptized,as the thief on the cross next to Christ on one side was saved, but when i was in highschool i was attending a revival at my church and just felt in my heart i wanted to be baptized . so i did , and it was ok , my ear nothing happened, but i have got infections from just sweat running in my ear, but that was only once. i have learned i guess growing up how to take a shower and turn my head as to not allow water to enter my ear, take care

Guest


Guest
"... i really never have bought into the idea the drs use as being sued.i think its just a tool they use in politics..." /// I'm not sure what this means. In any case,as someone who DOES NOT like doctors,I can yet clearly see how tort reform can significantly reduce costs for consumers,and it has nothing to do with politics. Malpractice insurance is rising exponentially along with incredible rewards given to plaintiffs. Doctors back up decisions with repeated tests before every decision (ask my mom) and that adds hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars to each treatment program per patient. The malpractice insurance is 10's of thousands of dollars per doctor. One "detail" already announced is that re-imbursements to Medicaire/Medicaid patients' caregivers will be drastcally reduced. Insurance companies are NOT going to reduce malpractice premiums as long as the huge settlements are in play and doctors are NOT going to reduce testing in order to cover their ass. The result? More and more doctors cut their Medi patient rolls and Medi patients wait wait wait, sometimes until it's too late. Just like in England. Just like in Canada.

rosco 357


Veteran
there is alot i dont know about this, i do know insurance companies are very strict on what test they allow, so im not sure drs over test unless the patient pays out of pocket. insurance companies have certain criteria you pass in order to have a test paid for. i had blood symptoms so the dr both my girls worked for at the time a very good gasro dr, did a colonostomy, and found one polp, and removed it. i was like 54 yrs old, i was a bit ticked that my internal medical dr. i go to twice a year for check ups and new prescriptions did not have that test ran on me sooner, like at age 50, my daughters do this work every day for years then, and they told me that insurance will not allow payment on that test at age 50 unless u have some symptoms. but if u have symptoms that symptom could result from cancer, symptoms being blood, what im saying is insurance have strict guide lines on when they will pay for test, so a dr cant just run test willy nilly, he can if ppl are willing to pay for it out of their pocket. i just had an echo gram and stress test, i had no symptoms,but high blood pressure , but because i was 58 and my mom had heart problems she died from, the insurance did pay for the test, but it had to have age and family history to pay for the test. they do have strict rules on when they pay for test. the insurance will not pay for another colonsotomy after that one till 5 years has past, that will be march 2010 , so i will have another, if they find nothing at all , my daughters told me i will then have another one in 10 years, if they find a precancerous polyp. they do one in 3 years, my polp was benign so i fell into the 5 year wait. the gasto dr would not even see me for an office visit till 3 months had past, because insurance would not pay for 3 months , they considered it as part of the procedure, but actually i did not go back, he put me on an expensive med, 175 bucks a month saying he thought i had ulcerative colitis , which is not curable, u have to take the meds the rest of ur live.
after 3 months of the meds, he sent me to a place that did a blood test for it, and they sent my blood to california, and it came back having no markers for ulcerative colitis so he told me to stop the meds and see how i do, so that was over 4 years ago, he did tell me i had spastic colon im on meds for that has been a blessing, i should have been on these meds many years ago, well sorry to run on , take care

runawayhorses


Owner
rosco 357 wrote: sorry to run on
Pardon the pun I'm sure...

No, in all seriousness of course I'm sorry you have that. I had to google it to find out what it was. But I'm glad you have meds for it.

Its a crazy world we live in, so many problems people get...I guess most people have their share of issues.

rosco 357


Veteran
runawayhorses wrote: I had to google it to find out what it was. But I'm glad you have meds for it.

Its a crazy world we live in, so many problems people get...I guess most people have their share of issues.

hey, i assume u mean the spatic colon, actually ppl call it ibs, irritable bowel syndrome but most ppl just call it spatic colon. he gave me meds i take 3 a day that does not allow my colon to spasm, and i have to take 3 cirtucells twice a day to counter the effect of that med, but citucells are good for u, like eating alot of bulk, i told my regular dr about it, and he said what did he tell u to take some imodium, it ticked me off, if u are to the point u take imodium u already have diarrhea duhh>>. the meds i take prevent that before it happens, , i have not had that in almost 5 years, just for anyones info, he only lets me take citrucells, not medimucell or anyother type, he said citrucells only, they dont cause gas, the others do, i can use the walmart brand as instead of 15 bucks a bottle they are 6 bucks, and 6 of them a day a bottle of 100 does not last that long,

runawayhorses


Owner
rosco 357 wrote:i assume u mean the spatic colon
Yes I was talking about that. Well the important thing is you have it under control.

Sorry for my humor with the "Pun" I couldn't resist..I know its a serious issue.

Good thing you have healthcare that will help pay for the meds, or else, you know. Its important to have a good plan no doubt.

take care

rosco 357


Veteran
yes i can remember as a child in school before a test, my stomach would cramp. so i actually had this all my life, but no more, only thing is the med to stop it restrict ur sweating and u have dry mouth, so it tells u to watch out for sun stroke, as u dont sweat enough to cool ur body,,

runawayhorses


Owner
rosco 357 wrote:yes i can remember as a child in school before a test, my stomach would cramp. so i actually had this all my life, but no more, only thing is the med to stop it restrict ur sweating and u have dry mouth, so it tells u to watch out for sun stroke, as u dont sweat enough to cool ur body,,
I can relate to your problem probably more than you know, I was laid up in the hospital for serveral weeks, and I had a similar issue, but with good food and treatment I got well again. Its tough when you have that and are too weak enough to move or help yourself, I was in that embarrassing position for several weeks at the hospital, and recouped at home. but still had the same problem for about 2 months. I couldn't move out of bed and people had to take care of me, it was awful, the worst experience of my life. I prefer not to explain why I ended up in a hospital, but it happened, and I survived.

gypsy


Moderator
So glad your better Tyler.

I have always had nervousness when i took tests, or performed in public, even in shooting pool on a league, my doctor said a lot of that was normal, an made adrenaline,which made one perform better, of course this is all to a degree normal.
but some nervous stomach is a disease



Last edited by gypsy on Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:21 pm; edited 2 times in total

runawayhorses


Owner
And on a further note, rosco, I hope you can take a few "do-do" jokes, becuase I still get them today. Its a serious condition you have, I had something similar for a short period of time, but humor sometimes relieves the pain of it all, not necessarily your ass, but 'emotionally' it relieves the pain...

runawayhorses


Owner
gypsy wrote: mervesous stomach is a disease
What does "mervesous" mean?

gypsy


Moderator
runawayhorses wrote:
gypsy wrote: "mervesous" stomach is a disease
What does mervesous mean?
I corrected the typo in another post Nervousness

????

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy wrote:
runawayhorses wrote:
gypsy wrote: "mervesous" stomach is a disease
What does mervesous mean?
I corrected the typo in another post Nervousness

????

no u did not, lol it was in the last sentence , i corrected it then deleted ur other post after,because the word tyler typed was still there in ur corrected second post,, i deleted, , i fixed the original

gypsy


Moderator
I corrected it in another post~ are we going to pick on typos now? mispellings we all do? I forgot to check it, so i corrected it next post~ so are you kidding?? lol!

rosco 357


Veteran
a doctor did a sigmoscopy flex( a smaller shorter colonostomy) ,on me when i was 40. he said i looked ok but my colon had some spasms.
i think then he should have treated me for IBS then but he was not a gastro dr, commonly called by nurses a butts and guts dr, lol, he was just a internal medical dr. one really needs a specialist. thats why i go to a urologist to check for cancer my dad had since it is hereditary, plus the urologist told me in so many words, he was better at checking than a regular dr to see him once a year. if ur father had it u need to start at 40 other wise the age is 50 for everyone and once per year, the good old finger check and a psa blood test...ppl tease like the check is a big deal but its not, its fast and does not hurt,and if found early is like i forget the exact number but like 85 or 90 percent curable.take care... my dad did not die from that, he died from another cancer the dr said was a smokers cancer..he had 2 seperate cancers. not a spread from the first one .

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy wrote:I corrected it in another post~ are we going to pick on typos now? mispellings we all do? I forgot to check it, so i corrected it next post~ so are you kidding?? lol!

both ur post the first one and the so called corrected one had the word "mervesous"stomach in the last sentence, so i fixed the first post to"nervous stomach" and then deleted ur second post since u should not use the same post to correct a typo,, pm me and i will correct it. we are not picking on typos we are picking on multiple post that did not even correct the word tyler posted,u did correct one typo but u had two, i only fixed it because u should not quote a whole post to fix a typo,,we all have typos, but dont clone post to fix them,

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