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1 Stop distorting Canada’s system on Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:16 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
A woman living in Canada wrote:

---
As an American living in Canada, I am very glad that the people of the United States are trying to reform U.S. health care. However, I am appalled at how opponents of reform are totally misrepresenting Canadian health care.

The false claims about the Canadian system seem much more like what American health insurance companies do than anything anyone I know has experienced in Canada.

When I had a lump on my breast, it was diagnosed quickly and removed immediately. When my husband had an accident far away from home, he received the surgery he needed even though it was 12:30 at night. He got excellent care while he was recuperating in the hospital.

Canadian health care is not perfect, and it can be improved. But people receive the care they need, and no one is turned away. I can think of countless times people I know needed health care here, but not one matches the scary stories Americans are being told.

From what I hear from my family in North Dakota, the United States could learn and gain a lot from the Canadian system. In Canada, people get the health care they need. You’re just covered. In the U.S., with insurance companies in charge, millions of people can’t get the care they should. When an insurance company can deny you health care, the system obviously is broken.

Remember, Canada is a democracy. When politicians here try to Americanize health care, they get voted out.

Those who are pushing the wild distortions of the Canadian system must have some ulterior motives. Their stories sure have little connection to what really happens here. So, good luck reforming U.S. health care. Please disregard the false stories and scare tactics.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/250338/

2 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:26 pm

rosco 357


Veteran
i dont know who all remembers PNG on iyt, i was talking to him ,maybe 2 years ago , but anyway, i may have posted this before, png, told me as i was asking him,.. he told me the way canada affords total healthcare coverage, is because the united states has such a superior military in the world, so canada does not have to spend alot on their military ,because they know the united states would always be a part in their protection, HE did say they were have some problems because ppl in canada are having there relatives come to canada for free healthcare and is straining the system some.
now this was like 25 years ago soooo, i took consumers guide magazines, and it had an article on canada health care, and basically after the magazine studied the canadian system. the article in the magazine stated the stories about the long waits in canada were very much exaggerated. now that was 20 to 25 years ago give or take.but consumer guide magazine does not play around when they test something the go to the extreme to make sure of what they arrive at.. i do know i talked seveal times on iyt to a single mother that her daughter was deaf, and it did take a while, i imagine because it was not an emergency, she got cockerel implants , the same thing rush limgaugh got, and it was all free.
i did hear on tv obama had stated the canadian plan would not work in america, but i failed to here why.. maybe its because obama said here ppl can just remain on their work insurance if they chose, , but actually i have no idea as to why he made that statement,,

3 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:28 pm

Guest


Guest
OK, let's allow the newly elected president of the Canadian Medical Association describe it. She said yesterday morning (8/19) that their system will "implode" (her words). She says the reasons are two-fold. Not enough primary care doctors and too many people for the number of caregivers available. The same problems we will have. You reckon she is distorting the truth (for some unknown reason)?

4 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:15 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
meemoon wrote:"The American people obvciously do NOT want Obamacare any more than they wanted Hillarycare and will NOT support it. Put as much lipstick on that pig as you want to, it is socialized medicine and unacceptable."

http://runawayhorses.alldiscussion.net/in-the-news-f5/this-is-so-ugly-t3760-45.htm#18170

That's laughable moon seriously, you actuality think you know what the majority of Americans want? I think the real majority of Americans WANT a universal government run health care plan. You have a government plan and its been working for you, thats wonderful, good for you, and your happy with it becuase it got approved... but some don't get it becuase the system has failed them and they get denied. You were one of the lucky ones, others were not so lucky. But good for you, of course you're happy.

Obama's healthcare will pass, I believe that now, before I had my doubts, but it will be implemented and work as it should. Coming soon to a theater near you.... :)

The country will have a universal healthcare plan, and more I think its a step in the right direction to getting this county back on track.,You lucky people who got what they wanted thru the system are in for a ride with your attitudes, you love it now becuase things are working for you, the rest of us want our cut, the unlucky ones who didn't get justice. We will get ours, it will come by means of a universal health care plan, implemented by the United states government.

5 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:38 pm

SSC


Admin
Tyler, I understand your situation in not having health care but to want a plan that may very well destroy the economy and endanger speedy and expanded care, needs to be looked at very very carefully. Plus it can't come into effect before 2013. Doctors will leave in droves if this new plan does not have provisions to protect them and hospital institutions from lawsuits.
I have been studying the co-op plans..Washington state has a very succesful co-op with excellent care. A shining example of a system that is working without government interference.
Like I have stated I had to fine tune coverage after my boss folded after the Obama election. I have excellent coverage and it is affordable. I don't want my medical messed with in any way.

6 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:40 pm

Guest


Guest
"We will get ours, it will come by means of a universal health care plan, implemented by the United states government." /// Here's what you'll get: When Dr. Brian Day,former president of the Canadian Medical Association, was asked "What is the biggest problem with your healthcare system in Canada?, he responded "Well, the biggest problem is access and by access, I mean we in the Canadian system depend on the family doctor as a first line of defense and 5 million Canadians (out of 34 million) don't have a family doctor". When asked subsequently "Is it because you don't pay them as well?, he responded "No, but we rank 26th out of 28 developed nations when it comes to the number of (available) family doctors. I'ts part of the rationing that has to happen when you promise to deliver everything and don't have enough resources". When asked "Is that a major problem, rationing in Canada and people suffering because they can't get in to see a doctor?" he answered "Oh yes, we have over a milliom people waiting for surgery and probably another million waiting to see a specialist before they get to wait for the surgery and that's out of a population of 34 million".

7 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:00 pm

Guest


Guest
"We will get ours..." (cont'd) Lucky? Well.....may be. I was lucky enough to work my way through college and always have good employment (when I wasn't screwing off). I paid the max or near the max SSA deduction evey year and when my "ship came in" and I was in a car accident in 1994 and was declared permanently disabled, I started drawing a good pension. I also got some back (retro) pay. $73,697, to be exact. I'm also lucky to be healthy (so far) and that's good, because in my town of over 10,000, there are only 2 doctors who will see Medicare/Medicaid patients. When Obamacare robs the SSA system of over half a trillion in re-imbursement funds over the next 10 years, AS THEY PROMISE, you will see even less doctors and much longer lines. I know you're a good person and I hope you get what you really want: Good, affordable, effective, and available healthcare and the dignity of having insurance. My belief is,however, that Obamacare will not get anywhere near it. You will get lines,long waits for tests,treatments, and therapies, and so will everyone else,insured or not. As usual,only the wealthy will win,while everyone else suffers.

SSC


Admin
Overhauling health-care system tops agenda at annual meeting of Canada's doctors
By Jennifer Graham (CP) – 5 days ago
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jbjzPEY0Y3bvRD335rGu_Z3KXoQw
SASKATOON — The incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association says this country's health-care system is sick and doctors need to develop a plan to cure it.

Dr. Anne Doig says patients are getting less than optimal care and she adds that physicians from across the country - who will gather in Saskatoon on Sunday for their annual meeting - recognize that changes must be made.

"We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize," Doing said in an interview with The Canadian Press.

"We know that there must be change," she said. "We're all running flat out, we're all just trying to stay ahead of the immediate day-to-day demands."

The pitch for change at the conference is to start with a presentation from Dr. Robert Ouellet, the current president of the CMA, who has said there's a critical need to make Canada's health-care system patient-centred. He will present details from his fact-finding trip to Europe in January, where he met with health groups in England, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands and France.

His thoughts on the issue are already clear. Ouellet has been saying since his return that "a health-care revolution has passed us by," that it's possible to make wait lists disappear while maintaining universal coverage and "that competition should be welcomed, not feared."

In other words, Ouellet believes there could be a role for private health-care delivery within the public system.

He has also said the Canadian system could be restructured to focus on patients if hospitals and other health-care institutions received funding based on the patients they treat, instead of an annual, lump-sum budget. This "activity-based funding" would be an incentive to provide more efficient care, he has said.

Doig says she doesn't know what a proposed "blueprint" toward patient-centred care might look like when the meeting wraps up Wednesday. She'd like to emerge with clear directions about where the association should focus efforts to direct change over the next few years. She also wants to see short-term, medium-term and long-term goals laid out.

"A short-term achievable goal would be to accelerate the process of getting electronic medical records into physicians' offices," she said. "That's one I think ought to be a priority and ought to be achievable."

A long-term goal would be getting health systems "talking to each other," so information can be quickly shared to help patients.

Doig, who has had a full-time family practice in Saskatoon for 30 years, acknowledges that when physicians have talked about changing the health-care system in the past, they've been accused of wanting an American-style structure. She insists that's not the case.

"It's not about choosing between an American system or a Canadian system," said Doig. "The whole thing is about looking at what other people do."

"That's called looking at the evidence, looking at how care is delivered and how care is paid for all around us (and) then saying 'Well, OK, that's good information. How do we make all of that work in the Canadian context? What do the Canadian people want?' "

Doig says there are some "very good things" about Canada's health-care system, but she points out that many people have stories about times when things didn't go well for them or their family.

"(Canadians) have to understand that the system that we have right now - if it keeps on going without change - is not sustainable," said Doig.

"They have to look at the evidence that's being presented and will be presented at (the meeting) and realize what Canada's doctors are trying to tell you, that you can get better care than what you're getting and we all have to participate in the discussion around how do we do that and of course how do we pay for it."

9 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:27 pm

Guest


Guest
SSC wrote: Doig said: "Canadians have to understand that the system that we have right now - if it keeps on going without change - is not sustainable"
Tonight, Dr. Day. the former pres of the Canadian CMA, says that this year, healthcare will take 42% of the budget and is projected to reach 80%+ very soon. I posted a few lines about this last night under "Death panels, some questions" and "Finally,some answers to my questions". Just going along with what "sounds good" isn't good enough. People need to stop wishing and start evaluating what really happens, has happened, and must happen, if gvernment planned healthcare is implemented.

10 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:26 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
meemoon wrote: when my "ship came in" and I was in a car accident in 1994 and was declared permanently disabled, I started drawing a good pension.
I wasn't suggesting you were "lucky" becuase of what happened to you, everyone knows that's not my style and would never suggest such an atrocity, and I don't think anyone thinks I think that way or feel anyone is lucky becuase of a medical problem, I think that much is understood, people know better than that, and that certainly wasn't my point. But rather, my point was, becuase your health care covered you and you got disability. You are lucky in that respect. Some people can't get any, and the coverage they may have doesn't recognize their problem as serious enough, or more to the point, simply isn't covered.

I thought I had made the distinction clear, my apologies for not doing so.

You're a great guy Moon and I like you, and I think you are getting what you deserve, I only wish I could say the same.

11 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:20 pm

Guest


Guest
There is NO dishonor in supporting any program that benefits you whether or not it benefits anyone else. I strongly oppose Obamacare for what may seem like purely selfish reasons. Cash flow at SSA will go negative in 2012 yet Obamacare will see half a trillion in reduced re-imbursements over the next 10 years. Even the Dems advertise that. I'm healthy now but I won't be. How many people will be standing in what is already a long line looking for services when I eventually start to fall apart? When SSA starts to bleed money in 2012, will the working people willingly see large increases in their FICA deductions in order to support the system or will they say "We can't have universal healthcare and pay this much in bennies, so cut their checks"? I'm not afraid of this but my mother is. She is literally terrified of it. Basically I and most old people are saying "Have all the universal healthcare you want, but wait until we're dead. We worked and paid for these benefits and are in no position to see them spread all over the place". Cold calculation? You betcha. As the birthrate decreases and life expectancy increases, you will see more of that; it is inevitable.

12 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:47 pm

rosco 357


Veteran
meemoon wrote: there are only 2 doctors who will see Medicare/Medicaid patients.

marc.. as i have stated, here birmingham has many medical facilitys, just out on the highway near me, there are several small hospital owned clinics usually 2 drs per clinic, . plus one the famous doc in the box offices that i have used on sundays for stitches when cut.our work told us to use them when possible over an emergency room , i only had a 20 buck co pay there, where emergency rooms cost more,but i go across town to the dr i use, who is in the professional office building adjacent to the hospital i like the best and have been seeing him for atleast 12 years,, but also there is other hospital i have had operations there i like also , and some i have never set foot in. so most the time i can call and see a doctor that very day, last time 6 months ago i had a physical, and it was in the morning, i have 2 ear specialist in that professional building i thougth heck im up here, im will get my impacted wax in my bad ear cleaned out, ( they have to do it dry, i cant have any thing wet in my ear) anyway i went to one and had to wait till 1:30 , so i went to the other ones office and they took me then. i dont think we have any problems with enough medicare drs. taking patients, or never heard of a problem. BUT i say all this to ask u, if u had part B of medicare, and maybe a supplement policy , which pays the rest of the bill, would more doctors see medicare patients with those added benefits, my mom had all those, she did not have cplus from blue cross as a supplement but one that was cheep as long as she used a hospital close to her where her dr was ,, but with that supplement she had u had to use that hospital, it was their plan, if they did not do certain procedures, like she had bypass, they had agreements with other hospitals, so she had her heart surgery at the hospital i go to see my dr at.. she used a group of like 10 drs that were called cardio thoracics pc i think. anyway i am rambling but wondered the main thing is if u had part b and a supplement which one day i think u will need. would u have a larger physician pool to draw from.. but i understand u dont feel the need for that now, well take care, i would imagine i have the best insurance here for the money, but one lay off away from not, but i pay 14 bucks a week for blue cross,and a good blue cross plan,,I just had 5 prescriptions filled one being a 90 day supply and the total for them all was 50 bucks .. and my dental insurance as i just had a check up and cleaning that is totally free twice a year, i pay 1 dollar and 5 cents a week, actually it was 75 cents a week premiums, but they went up lol, and i dont really see why my work does just not cover that small amount i dont have any idea what the total bill that they pay is.. and i have short term (6 months) and after that long term disablity benefits that pay me like 70 percent of my salary,and its free plus free life insurance,sorry for the long post, just to ask u the question i asked u about part b and supplement, take care

13 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:34 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
geeez rosco, I almost ran out of breath reading it...lol (kidding)

14 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:51 am

Guest


Guest
I am amazed. How many times have I posted this and repeated it to you in pm's? I DO NOT PURCHASE PART "B" OR SUPPLEMENTAL COVERAGE! How could ANY of my words have had any meaning to you if you are just going to forget,no matter haw many times I post it,what I have written? PLEASE, Roscoe, if you want to NOT read my words and remember them, don't engage me in conversation about things that mean a lot to me.

15 Roscoe: on Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:32 am

Guest


Guest
(In a pm to you 8/16) "I hate doctor visits and have opted out of Medicare part B." (In a post 8/20) " If you had bothered to read my previous posts, I clearly said I opted out of Medicare, part B, because only 2 doctors in my town see Medi patients..." (In a post on 8/10) "That's ugly and it is wrong,but it is a fact of life and the reason I immediately dropped part B coverage." (Do I need to look up more? I don't want to)

16 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:56 am

rosco 357


Veteran
meemoon wrote:I am amazed. How many times have I posted this and repeated it to you in pm's? I DO NOT PURCHASE PART "B" OR SUPPLEMENTAL COVERAGE! How could ANY of my words have had any meaning to you if you are just going to forget,no matter haw many times I post it,what I have written? PLEASE, Roscoe, if you want to NOT read my words and remember them, don't engage me in conversation about things that mean a lot to me.
i know u dont have part B and a supplement i have know for a long time, .u did not understand my post., my question is IF u took out those things would there be more doctors than 2 that might see u as a patient,mainly would a supplement make a difference, its a simple question. yes or no would be just fine,

17 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:17 am

Guest


Guest
" if u had part B of medicare, and maybe a supplement policy , which pays the rest of the bill, would more doctors see medicare patients with those added benefits..." /// Forgive me if I misread your question, but I don't understand it. How would me having part B coverage or supplemental affect the number of doctors in my town? I had part B when I found out there were only two and, as stated,dropped it. Hmmm. I don't get it. How could or would doctors drop part B patients if they didn't already have patients with part B coverage to drop? I guess my answer would be "no" since it's not likely that more doctors would show up just to service part B patients. Where would they come from anyway? I'm confused. Did you mean more doctors would see part B patients if they ALSO had supplementl? I would have no way of knowing.

18 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:14 pm

rosco 357


Veteran
yes i guess that is what im asking since a supplement pays more of the bill, are there more doctors that take patients on medicare if they have a supplement, that pays more. my doctor knows exactly what insurance i have on my chart he has in hand during a visit, actually if i tell him i have changed insurances(which we did every year while in the union) while i am in his office he writes it down and say oh u have new insurance. and i see the wheels turning in his head , since i have changed insurance he then does a new medical history on me and therefore charges the new insurance for the time he take for a new medical history, and charges the insurance for it. when actually he knows my history already as nothing has changed in my past, its just a way for him to charge the insurance more for the visit , the new insurance does not know he already knows my history. like i said before he has 4 stages of the kind of visit i have , so he can charge the new insurance for the longest visit, and just can code the visit for a history, when in fact he does nothing, i only wondered if u had more doctors in ur town that took medicare patients if they had a supplement, it would take calling doctors, but no big deal im about health cared out, loll , sorry u only have 2 in ur town that must be tough.,we dont encounter that here..my mom had her supplement through a hospital that sold their own supplement, and all the doctors in the hospital professional building where the drs offices are and hers was in took medicare,because the hospital sold medicare supplements, actually the supplement she had , it had a 10 buck co pay per visit on the supplement. but the doctor just waved that and never charged the patient that. taking the ppl on medicare and the supplement just insured him a full load of patients, so he had no gaps in the day,,take care

19 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:49 pm

gypsy


Moderator
Rosco I am amazed that meemoons town has only two doctors..I don't think mayfield is much bigger than his town.
we have a big Hospital and lots of doctors~`I mostly go to Paducah though for my health care,because they have top notch Heart specialists there.. population in Mayfield in 2000 was 10,349



Last edited by gypsy on Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

20 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:52 pm

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy wrote:Rosco I am amazed that meemoons town has only two doctors..I don't think mayfield is much bigger than his town.
we have a big Hospital and lots of doctors~`I mostly go to Paducah though for my health care,because they have top notch Heart specialists there..

yes it is hard to believe and may not be true, may need more checking for doctors,

21 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:58 pm

Guest


Guest
OK, I'm clear now but I'm afraid I still can't answer your question. When I first had occasion to see a doctor, I had called about 4 or 5 doctors before the receptionist told me that only 2 doctors in town, that she knew of, took Medicare patients. I later discovered that she had not been totally truthful. I don't know how many black doctors there are here,but the first one I called took medicare patients and I saw him and got my prescription (chronic heartburn,since cleared up). None of the offices I called that turned me down said "no Medicare patients unless you have supplemental" so I don't know what,if any,effect that coverage would have had on their decision since they didn't ask.. They just said "no Medicare patients at all". As I said before, paying at the time $76/mo for part B seemed pointless since I had a $100 dedutible on the first doctor's visit,so I dropped it. My mom says she is convinced the incredible numbers of tests and re-tests she is scheduled for are often just to get a re-imbursement to the doctors. I believe her.

22 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:00 pm

Guest


Guest
"yes it is hard to believe and may not be true..." /// True or not,it is what I was told.i.e., TWO DOCTORS THAT TAKE MEDICARE PATIENTS. I said earlier that there are, I think,about 30 doctors in town. I don't tell lies.

23 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:03 pm

gypsy


Moderator
Rosco, I was just reading history of Mayfield from wikipedia, an interest little city. I don't live in Mayfield but it is closest town to me>

24 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:06 pm

gypsy


Moderator
All Doctors here take medicare patients,I don't understand the concept that doctors Don't take them??

25 Re: Stop distorting Canada’s system on Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:13 pm

Guest


Guest
I just looked in the phone book. There are 25 MDs listed (I did not count specialists) One should be careful about implying that I am not telling the truth.

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