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rosco 357


Veteran
my words: these same events happen with familys thousands of time each day among family's with differing health issues, living wills, at what point do u pull the plug, will the patient ever stop being a vegetable,etc. all this amendment did and some republicans supported it, was to pay for the drs. consultation on answers u may need, but since ppl used it to scare pll, the senate where it was where the amendment was introduced is now being removed, thats fine with me, i figure a family that does this very thing every day and always has can just pay the dr, for a consultation. so sarah palin can take her dumb ass and continue to try to stay in the news and land a tv news show.


Senators exclude end-of-life provision from bill
Thu Aug 13, 1:55 pm ET
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life_2/print

WASHINGTON Key senators are excluding a provision on end-of-life care from health overhaul legislation after language in a House bill caused a furor.

Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa, top REPUBLICAN on the Senate Finance Committee, said in a statement Thursday that the provision had been dropped from consideration because it could be misinterpreted or implemented incorrectly.

A health care bill passed by three House committees allows Medicare to reimburse doctors for voluntary counseling sessions about end-of-life decisions. But critics have claimed the provision could lead to death panels and euthanasia for seniors.

The Senate Finance Committee is still working to complete a bill.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

WASHINGTON (AP) For more than a decade in Congress, Oregon Rep. Earl Blumenauer has been known for his ever-present bow-tie and tireless advocacy of bikes.

So it is something of a surprise to the Portland Democrat that he has earned a new measure of fame in recent days as author of a health-care provision that some critics say would set up a "death panel."

In a widely quoted Facebook posting, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin charged that federal bureaucrats would play God, ruling on whether ailing seniors or children with Down syndrome such as Palin's son Trig are worthy of health care. Palin called the proposal "downright evil."

Many news organizations including The Associated Press debunked Palin's claim. The provision that caused the uproar would authorize Medicare to pay doctors for voluntary counseling about end-of-life care.

But Blumenauer says he is astounded that Palin and other critics have not tempered their bleak descriptions of the health care bill.

"It's deliberate at this point," Blumenauer said of Palin's failure to correct her Aug. 7 Facebook posting. "If she wasn't deliberately lying at the beginning, she is deliberately allowing a terrible falsehood to be spread with her name."

Blumenauer singled out another prominent Republican, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, saying he has "linked arms with Sarah Palin and death panels." While Gingrich has not used the term death panel, he has declined several opportunities to denounce Palin's claim.

"You are asking us to trust turning power over to the government, when there are clearly people in America who believe in establishing euthanasia, including selective standards," Gingrich said Sunday on the ABC's "This Week."

Blumenauer called the comments despicable and part of an orchestrated effort by Republicans to discredit the health care overhaul and scare seniors.

In nearly four decades of public life, "this is the starkest example I've ever seen of how, if we're not careful, political discourse dissolves into some type of partisan cage-fighting, where there are no rules and anything goes," said Blumenauer, 60.

Palin did not respond to requests for comment. But in a Facebook posting late Wednesday night, Palin defended her original claim, which President Barack Obama and other Democrats have criticized.

"With all due respect, it's misleading for the president to describe this section as an entirely voluntary provision that simply increases the information offered to Medicare recipients," she said, noting that the provision authorizes consultations whenever a Medicare recipient's health changes significantly or when they enter a nursing home.

Since the bill's intent is to reduce overall health care costs, it's logical to assume that care for seniors may be curtailed, Palin said.

"It's all just more evidence that the Democratic legislative proposals will lead to health care rationing, and more evidence that the top-down plans of government bureaucrats will never result in real health care reform," she wrote.

Rick Tyler, a spokesman for Gingrich, said Blumenauer was following a Democratic tactic of linking all Republicans to Palin.

"Obviously Newt didn't embrace her euphemism of death panels. But he said to the larger point, there is a concern that people have about allowing government to be involved in these decisions," Tyler said. "She's raising a point we should discuss."

Blumenauer said the measure he supports would merely allow Medicare to pay doctors for voluntary counseling sessions that address end-of-life issues. Topics include living wills, designating a close relative or a trusted friend as a health care proxy and information about pain medications for chronic discomfort.

The measure would block funds for counseling that presents suicide or assisted suicide as an option, Blumenauer said, calling references to death panels or euthanasia "mind-numbing."

"It's a blatant lie, and everybody who has checked it agrees," he said.

Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski said this week that Palin and other critics were not helping the GOP by throwing out false claims.

"Quite honestly, I'm so offended at that terminology, because it absolutely isn't" in the bill, Murkowski said. "There is no reason to gin up fear in the American public by saying things that are not included in the bill."

Georgia Sen. Johnny Isakson, a Republican who co-sponsored a similar measure in the Senate, said it was "nuts" to claim the bill encourages euthanasia.

"You're putting the authority in the individual rather than the government," Isakson said. "I don't know how that got so mixed up."

Blumenauer said the controversy was helping Democrats in a "perverse way."

By continuing to spread a widely refuted claim, Republican critics are undercutting their own credibility, he said. The controversy has drawn more attention to the original proposal, which passed largely unnoticed when a health overhaul was approved by three House committees.

"This has taken on an outsized significance and so more people are paying attention to it than ever before," Blumenauer said. "I think you will see more people use this to say, 'What will happen to me if I am in an accident? Here's what I want.' More people are going to take matters into their own hands."

gypsy


Moderator
I agree Rosco,it was used by some Republicans,as scare tactics, because they don't want this health reform bill to pass, they want Obama to fail..
I had posted this article, some where here LOL

SSC


Admin
Palin had a huge concern for pre-existing conditions such as her son Trig has ,being covered. I respect that on her part. Anyone with a child or any person with a pre-existing condition attempting to get health care should be sitting up and taking note of this bill. Without that guarantee in writing a whole lot of people will still be out in the cold, and then making it affordable is a very strong point.

rosco 357


Veteran
well chuck grassley i think is who a republican i think , is removing it, but i feel sarah palin was using her son as a pawn. in her attempt to stay in the front of the new, and i dont believe that was right. this amendment would not effect him,

rosco 357


Veteran
ok i re read ur post , obama said multiple times preexisting conditions was one of the main things that would be in any plan,

SSC


Admin
Not the ammendment, the bill itself , stop a minute and think ...health coverage is going to be doled out from private insurance companies even if this bill is passed, and to date insurance companies are not agreeing to lower rates nor are they agreeing to take on pre-existing conditions at an affordable rate.

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy wrote:I agree Rosco,it was used by some Republicans,as scare tactics, because they don't want this health reform bill to pass, they want Obama to fail..
I had posted this article, some where here LOL

i may be wrong but i dont think ur post had the decision to take it out of the senates plan, and i think that is where it was, now arlen spector of penn. wants it back in lol, so no one can be happy lol, take care, now bill clinton is entering into the debate,on the whole thing, lol

rosco 357


Veteran
SSC wrote:Not the ammendment, the bill itself , stop a minute and think ...health coverage is going to be doled out from private insurance companies even if this bill is passed, and to date insurance companies are not agreeing to lower rates nor are they agreeing to take on pre-existing conditions at an affordable rate.

i have had lots of experience with insurance as where i was for 20 years when insurance went up would talk to seveal companies to get a better rate, anytime u got on a new insurance preexising conditions were covered, or if u were a new hire, when ur probation period was over and u got on the insurance , prexisting conditions were covered, but if u waited to long to get on like over 30 days or maybe 60 u had a waiting period for prexisting conditions, usually 9 months wait, and that is because thats the time of a pregnacy, but all these were HMOS and PPOs im on a PPO now , i think the only difference is on the ppo i dont have to get a referal to a specialist, i go to many specailist now with out a referal from the dr i go to, who when on a hmo was my primary care dr, now im not limited to any dr, on the ppo, which i like alot better,

gypsy


Moderator
yes on Grassley an Isasko I like them. Rosco I may have got the article from a different place but basically mine has the same thing~that is ok we can read it twice~
I also think palin likes to create lies,and why she is going that route~is a mystery to me. to be in the spot light I think`as I said once before she has a bit of an elevator problem.. LOL

SSC


Admin
Palin is no different that the private citizens voicing their opinions on this health care fiasco, and how suspicious that buses of Acorn people show up and are handed question cards before entering a town hall meeting..are the Dems so desperate they have to engage this crooked organization once again to do their dirty work. No wonder Dem poll numbers are crashing. People are voicing their feelings ..no one trusts politicians ...AMEN

gypsy


Moderator
I disagree.. I think Acorn has made mistakes in who they hire, but as a whole is a working organization,.that get results..
some politicians are corrupt, but there are still some good ones in democratic/republican party
desperate?? I think the republicans have shown many distasteful actions, they are at the very bottom now, an will have to find some leader in their party to rebuild/restructure/
The point is, we need Health Care Reform,bottom line..

SSC


Admin
That is a gimme answer of course we need some type of health care reform. My problems is in listening to Obama at his town hall speeches there are no guarantees insurance companies will lower rates and allow repeated medical visits. You will not have the option to seek other doctors other that your designated physician, thus limiting your possibility of receiving enhanced care.
In his Colorado meeting he just stated it will be 3 months till it is voted on then years until it is implemented after a series of amendments to the bill. So what ever is passed if it is passed , will be shaved and restructured and all this will be done behind closed doors..Joe America may never know what has been added ot taken away until they need to use the medical plan and all of a sudden coverage and treatment has been altered.

gypsy


Moderator
that is not how I understood it, we will be able to pick our doctors, is my understanding, and there will be enhanced care~

SSC


Admin
Obama stated if your illness required several trips to other than local Dr.s there would have to be limitations placed on the number and cost of the medical trips, the new system could not afford to pay for numerous trips. In that statement from him it sounds like regardless of the condition , only limited care can be provided. Example: If you needed to see a specialist in a different state you will be denied .

gypsy


Moderator
whatever, I guess we all interpret it different, is there any article where he states this? I can't find any, but would be glad to read or listen/watch the video

SSC


Admin
check for a video of the town hall meeting in Grand Junction

gypsy


Moderator
ok will do

gypsy


Moderator
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/15/president-obama-holds-a-t_n_260388.html

I found this. there may be others. nothing I found here about enhanced care not being provided or going to specialist out of state .

SSC


Admin
Huffington will only post what is good for the Dem. view.....In the town hall meeting during the question and answer time close to the end of the meeting was when Obana made his explaination of expanded care. You probably can find it on YouTube tomorrow or later tonight.

rosco 357


Veteran
i dont know if this is what u mean or not it was the end , but i find nothing wrong with it, im not sure what yall were hunting, but it changed nothing from what the insurance companies do now. trust me i call and fight with my insurance company lol , anyway not sure this is it but it is the end, of the colorado session, mine always said well will it be a out of network doctor, it never is, lol we have doctors up our ass here,,most of them hardly work on fridays, my dentist is closed on fridays, we have plenty of everything, and im on blue cross and all of them are on blue cross, i live in a city with big time medical facilities so anything that needs doing can most always be done here, and in network , out of network is covered but to a lesser degree on the amount my insurance pays, but like i said i have never went out of network, all doctors are on blue cross,blue shield ,,or they would loose most of their patients, and this may not be what yall were discussing. i understood perfectly everyone would need to be covered to implement the preexisting conditions for everyone, u cant not take insurance and then wait till ur sick and decide well i will go get it now, i have discussed this 35 years ago.im not sure if this is what yall were hunting but i tryed, lol..



Last edited by rosco 357 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:32 am; edited 2 times in total

gypsy


Moderator
rosco this is what ssc stated I saw nothing of him saying this in the grand junction meeting
i may have missed it towards the end he did say there would be restrictions you couldn't fly all over the world to see doctors.maybe that is what she meant

SSC wrote:Obama stated if your illness required several trips to other than local Dr.s there would have to be limitations placed on the number and cost of the medical trips, the new system could not afford to pay for numerous trips. In that statement from him it sounds like regardless of the condition , only limited care can be provided. Example: If you needed to see a specialist in a different state you will be denied .

rosco 357


Veteran
SSC wrote:Obama stated if your illness required several trips to other than local Dr.s there would have to be limitations placed on the number and cost of the medical trips, the new system could not afford to pay for numerous trips. In that statement from him it sounds like regardless of the condition , only limited care can be provided. Example: If you needed to see a specialist in a different state you will be denied .

i think it would not be denied, just maybe more copay, but if u lived close to a state line i would think it would make no difference , that dr would probably be in ur network,i think its the pay for travel part that would be a problem but i would never travel for healthcare, if they cant fix it here with all the hospitals we have , i would die anyway,and i think my insurance has some restrictions on travel anyway, but i would not need it, i think every possible specialist there is we already have,my blue cross plan is not even alabama blue cross, but some blue cross in california,but they have to let the alabama blue cross handle it, and they then cut the dr a check from california, im on premier blue cross in cali. i was on one in wyoming,lol, , one thing that was good when i was on days is my insurance was on pacific time so i had plenty of time when off work to call them, before they closed, now i can call in the morning,

Guest


Guest
Sarah Palin was the successful and popular governer of our largest state and she is a "dumbass"??? On what do you base that assessment? Since you disagree with her views,should she assume YOU are a "dumbass"? One can put all kinds of lipstick on the Obamacare bill that one would like to,BUT....it WILL result in rationing. It must. Where are all the additional doctors,nurses,lab techs,therapists,etc., gonna come from? Do you know? If you know,tell us. Government b'crats will be making life or death decisions,not doctors. FACT. There will be a limited amount of tests to be done,surgeries and treatments to be administered, therapies available. FACT. You may fight with your insurers,but there will be NO fighting with the government.Will there be unlinited care expenses for patients? Of course not. There will be lists and whether or not you live will be dependent on where you fall on that list. FACT. There are only 2 doctors in my town of 10,000 who will see Medicare/Medicaid patients and that is typical. FACT. Universal healthcare is a DREAM this country is NOT prepared for (Opinion supported by facts) You tell me how the government can create over a million healthcare workers overnight. Will the government be empowered to FORCE doctors to treat Medicare/Medicaid patients? Am I a "dumbass" for not having the answers to these questions? Let's hear some answers instead of name calling.

runawayhorses


Owner
rosco 357 wrote:so sarah palin can take her dumb ass and continue to try to stay in the news and land a tv news show.
I thought you were in love with her and now you're calling her a dumbass??..

I agree with Moon on his assessment of Palin, I think she has achieved too much to be labeled a dumbass. But my guess is you were probably exaggerating.

btw don't lose sight of this..lol:

gypsy


Moderator
Well ,for one thing I disagree that she(Palin) was a successful Governor,after all she did quit! popular for awhile, but not so much now..
second Alaska is one of the worse states for good health care,while she was Governor..I read an article on this, will find it if I can, and heard it on the news.
plus putting the death panel scare and using her son as a public puppet to me is dumb~
her persona is dumb in thinking, not her appearance

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