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rosco 357


Veteran
Cheney Takes Fight to Obama as Other Republicans Avoid Clash


By Hans Nichols

May 22 (Bloomberg) -- Former Vice President Dick Cheney accomplished something yesterday that Republicans have seldom been able to do: directly challenge President Barack Obama in real time on a major policy issue.

In a nationally televised speech delivered just minutes after Obama had spoken on how to protect the U.S. against terrorism, Cheney defended the decisions he and former President George W. Bush made after the Sept. 11 attacks, including using harsh interrogation methods on terror suspects.

While Republican leaders have largely avoided direct attacks on Obama and focused instead on Democratic congressional leaders, Cheney, 68, has taken the opposite tack. Republican lawmakers and strategists said he was able to raise the intensity of the criticism yesterday because, unlike other party members, he isn’t worried about damaging any future political ambitions by taking on a popular president.

Cheney “might not have the highest favorability ratings, but on this issue, I think he’s viewed by people across the country as being very credible and very knowledgeable,” said Senator John Thune, a South Dakota Republican. “What he says carries a lot of weight.”

White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel said Cheney’s prominence in the debate was actually an advantage for the administration, because it showed disarray within the Republican Party.

Most Republicans would probably prefer to be represented by a standard-bearer whose name was “picked out of a hat” rather than Cheney, Emanuel said in an interview.

Ratings Rise

In a poll by CNN/Opinion Research Corp. that was released this week, 55 percent of respondents said they had an unfavorable opinion of Cheney, compared with 37 percent who had a favorable view. That was an 8-percentage-point improvement from January, when Bush and Cheney left office with approval ratings near the lowest levels in history. By contrast, Obama’s approval ratings have been above 60 percent since he took office Jan. 20.

Still, Republican strategist Jim Pinkerton said Cheney’s popularity “doesn’t really matter,” because he “is not running for anything.” What is important, he said, is that “Cheney absolutely has the better of the argument.”

Pinkerton pointed to the 90-6 vote in the Senate on May 20 when Democrats, including Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, joined Republicans to strip from a spending measure the $80 million Obama requested to fulfill his promise to close the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, by the end of the year.

Take Reid’s Word

“Don’t take my word for it, take Harry Reid’s word for it,” Pinkerton said.

Obama appeared yesterday at the National Archives, the repository of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, to build public support for his national-security policies in the wake of reversals such as the Senate vote.

The detention center at Guantanamo, he said, “set back the moral authority that is America’s strongest currency in the world.” The Bush administration “was defending positions that undermined the rule of law,” he said.

Almost as soon as Obama finished his remarks, Cheney began speaking just two miles away, at the American Enterprise Institute, a research organization that generally supported Bush’s policies.

Saving Lives

He opened his speech by joking about Obama’s address starting late. His tone quickly turned more grave as he claimed that interrogation tactics such as waterboarding saved American lives.

“When an entire population is targeted by a terror network, nothing is more consistent with American values than to stop them,” he said. He would make those decisions again “without hesitation,” he said.

John Feehery, a Republican consultant, said Cheney’s instant response to Obama gave his party one of its rare victories since the Democrats took control of the White House and both chambers of Congress in the November election: the ability to challenge Obama’s domination of the airwaves and the news cycle.

That success, said Feehery, who served as spokesman for former House Speaker Dennis Hastert, was linked to the decision to engage the Democrats on the theme of national security, a subject where Republicans have historically had an advantage.

‘Everything We Could’

“The percentages are more with Cheney than Obama,” Feehery said. “What Cheney is basically arguing is that we did everything we could to make the country safer, and what Obama is arguing is that we don’t have to do as much to make the country safer.”

Feehery said Cheney had gotten the better of the president with barbed lines like one in which he said the current administration’s approach is more geared to receiving “applause in Europe” than protecting America’s security.

“There’s no doubt about it, this is the first time they’ve got him,” he said. “This is the first time that Republicans feel like they have some momentum.”

He said Cheney’s defense of the Bush policies as necessary to protect the U.S. will seem prescient in the event of a terrorist attack.

“If something goes wrong, people are going to remember what Cheney said,” Feehery said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aw9i42HdcJfk&refer=worldwide

To contact the reporter on this story: Hans Nichols in Washington at hnichols2@bloomberg.net
Last Updated: May 22, 2009 00:01 EDT

gypsy


Moderator
I disagree, I again say Cheney is a thug,and not credible~ he was behind the scenes pulling chains..never saw him he was always in hiding~ now he is worried because his Butt may be in a bind~BOOO!!! Cheney.. what 58 percent of us agree` Good~

I wouldn't put it past Cheney to produce/engage a terrorist attack~~ ummm

SSC


Admin
Gypsy you are one sick person,How can you justify a statement you think Cheney would invent a terrorist attack, that is morbid and twisted, your true self just showed up and it is disgusting...just as you said Bush was trying to scare people about terrorists. Cheney hit the nail on the head, Obama is not up to par on security, maybe you don't worry about your own well being but I like myself a whole bunch.

gypsy


Moderator
I will say this, eight years of failure, and he(cheney) heckels Obama now~ I am not the sick one` Cheney/ yes!!I wouldn't put anything past him. he is evil ..he did shoot his best friend in the face~~I don't have to justify it~~ my opinion~

SSC


Admin
a hunting accident...but of course you will holler Cheney wanted to murder his friend..that is your mental way of thinking...you are a sick-sick-sick individual...you are so obsessed with Bush and Cheney you will stoop to the lowest levels . I am totally disgusted with you...

gypsy


Moderator
oh Wow! that just so makes me depressed ur disgusted with me~~hahah BOOHOO you think i care what you think?? No~~
I am not obsessed but they (Bush Cheney) and their league of evil doers are being exposed, I am not the sick one~,you can say anything you want about obama and think your justified?? but point at me` when i voice my thoughts~` that is laughable eight years is proof~~ not 100+ days~~if you keep harping on how wrong obama is gives me a reason to remind you of Bush/Cheney era!

SSC


Admin
I don't give a flippin shit if you care what I think or not, you made your self look like a fucking idiot, am I surprised shit no...Type some more mindless crap...you have scraped the bottom of the barrel and came up with scum, so typical of you.

gypsy


Moderator
blah blah, I have every right to voice my thoughts,opinions. if you don't like it don't read it, some of your advice,I think~~I am just as good as you are anyone, you have badmouthed Obama many times` but that is typical of u to pass judgment when you do the same things~~ have a good night SSC I will read periodically, but i am not going to debate this with you, your not worth my time ~~

SSC


Admin
FUCK OFF GYPSY........ get your little bottle of wine and try and be intelligent , so far it isn't working for you..once a liar always a liar, and a large dose of stupidity mixed in..YOU ARE NOT WORTH MY TIME BY ANY MEANS SO TALK TO YOURSELF.

gypsy


Moderator
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30891965




Readers honor fallen soldiers' contributions
Dads, sons, friends remembered — as are the poppies in Flanders fields

Honoring fallen soldiers




msnbc.com
updated 3:08 p.m. PT, Fri., May 22, 2009

On this Memorial Day weekend, msnbc.com asked readers to share stories about loved ones who died serving their country. Below are some of those submissions.

We'll be adding more over the holiday weekend, so send your thoughts, and a photo if possible, of a fallen soldier who was dear to you. Click here to submit those.

Raymond L. Boyle, BMC, USN, Ret.
Proudly served in the United States Navy for 23 years. He enlisted during World War II
and served during the Korean War and finally retired in 1965. His years in the service defined him as a person. He was so very proud of his Navy years. Sadly, he died in 1997 and is buried at Arlington National Cemetery.
Not a day goes by that I do not miss him.
Love you Dad
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here

Patricia Boyle Kerr, Delray Beach, Fla.

---------------------

SPC Harry "Buck" Winkler III
3/12/74-11/12/06

He loved music, wrote poetry, loved to surf and skateboard and watching every type of sports with his younger brother. Buck just did what he wanted and would take his punishment if he got into trouble. When his younger brother joined the Air Force he decided at 27 he would join the service. He worked hard to get in the Army and he actually loved boot camp. I still have his letters from boot camp and all the things he made me laugh at. When he came back from his first tour in Iraq he met and married his soul mate. Together they had a beautiful son, Owen, in Dec. 2005. He was redeployed when Owen was only 8 months old, and one month before Owen's first birthday he was killed in Samarra, Iraq. He left behind not only a wife and son but a mother, brother, sister and a family that just loves and misses him very much. I never thought that Buck would have joined the service but he loved what he did. He grew up and the Army changed him, but war changed him more. I miss him every day and God allows signs from above that I know he's OK. Thank you Heavenly Father for allowing Buck into our lives for the wonderful 32 years that you gave us with him on earth. (On one note I have to say thank you to MSNBC for allowing Buck and other soldiers to call home at Easter in 2003. You can never know what that meant at that time.)

Debbi Rivers, Hampton, S.C.

----------------------

Lance Cpl. Jonathan Brett Thornsberry
Lance Cpl. Jonathan Thornsberry
(Jonathan) was killed in action in the Al Anbar province of Iraq on Oct. 25, 2006. He served with the Alpha Company, 1st Battalion, 24th Marines, 4th Marine Division, from Grand Rapids, Mich.
Jonathan left behind his parents, brother, wife and daughter Haylee. He was 22 years old and had been in Iraq for less than a month. He truly had a heart of gold, and would give anything he had to someone in need! He is greatly missed every day!

Melissa Little, Detroit, Mich.

---------------------

S/Sgt Christian Engeldrum
11/19/65-11/20/04
My son was killed in Iraq. He was at 9/11 with the FDNY and reenlisted in the Nat. Guard after that horrible day. Chris was killed by a roadside bomb. I think of Chris proudly and honor his commitment to his country!

Lenora Engeldrum, proud Army Gold Star Mother, Ventura, Calif.

-------------------------

CW3 David M. Stanley
Image: David Stanley with Jesse James
Submitted by Travis Higgins
David M. Stanley with Jesse James of West Coast Choppers shortly after flying James to Balad, Iraq.
(David) was a Blackhawk helicopter pilot with C Company 4th Battalion, 101st Aviation Regiment stationed at Fort Campbell, Ky. He was killed on Sept. 11, 2007, along with two other crew members near Skyline, Ala., when the UH-60 he was piloting encountered bad weather and crashed. Dave was a veteran of two Iraq tours and was due to deploy to Afghanistan the following fall. Dave was seen on the Discovery Channel's "Monster Garage with Jesse James" — Dave being one of the two pilots who flew him for the TV special from Balad, Iraq.

Travis Higgins, Clarksville, Tenn.

----------------------

Spc. Charles Bilbrey Jr.
5/10/86-7/26/07
Image: Charles Bilbrey
Spc. Charles Bilbrey Jr. in Ramadi, Iraq, in April 2007
Charlie had always wanted to be in the army and joined right out of high school. He loved laughter, music and a great debate. He had a broad knowledge base on many subjects but none bigger than anime and comics.
He would be a friend to anyone who needed one and tried to help others out even if was only to give them a quick laugh at his own expense. Charlie was killed in action with two other soldiers by an IED near Fallujah, Iraq. His hometown of Owego, N.Y., turned out to welcome him home and lay him to rest. Charlie lived life loud and the silence left behind is deafening. He remains alive in the hearts and minds of all who knew him.

Barbara Bilbrey, Owego, N.Y.

---------------------

BM1 Bobby Don Carver
10/30/35-12/6/67
Image: Bobby Don Carver
BM1 Bobby Don Carver
A Swift Boat PCF-79 after mount 50cal. gunner, (he) pushed boat officer away from the line of enemy fire being received from three bunker positions on the beach along the My Lai coastline in Quang Ngai Province, Republic of South Vietnam.
Four-and-a-half months earlier, 15 July 1967, Carver fired an 81mm fatal round into the pilot house of a 120-ft North Vietnamese steel-hulled trawler carrying more than 90 tons of ammunition and supplies to the awaiting North Vietnamese and Viet Cong forces on the Cap Batangan Peninsula, south of Chu Lai. He and crew were personally decorated by Premier Nguyen Coa Ky.
Your crew — Ed Bergin, Ronald Rinehart, Robert Middleton, Timothy McNamara, Jim Schneider, Raul Herrera — and members of the Swift Boat Sailors Association salute you and the rest of our Swift Boat brothers that fought valiantly and gave the ultimate sacrifice ... you are not forgotten ... We Remember!

Raul Herrera
President, Swift Boat Sailors Association

-----------------

Robert Clifton Jackson
12/8/60-6/24/82
My brother Cliff was a Marine Reservist. He died June 24, 1982, while playing war games during his two weeks at Camp Pendleton, Calif. He was 21 and his skull was crushed between two amphibious assault crafts that were under the deck of a Navy ship. They were loading onto the craft for war games when the emergency brakes released from another craft. The emergency brakes were the only brakes used to save time in the maneuver. Ten minutes! He died, another's back was broke and another's legs were crushed. He was a really great young man. He also worked as a civilian at the Charleston Navy Base. To this day I remember him hugging me goodbye telling me he'd be back in two weeks and we'd go bowling and he had his camouflage for the trip. He signed up to serve and would have done so for many years to come if he had had the chance to. I know how all of the families of all wars feel to get that call and visit from the military and it's terrible. It's sad. I have a strong feeling that our soldiers would not have had it any other way and I'm proud. I say thank you to everyone I run into during the day for serving our country. I hope they know that I really mean it.

In his honor I've place a brick in the Memorial Gardens in Key West. He and I used to s


Finally, Pete Huetson of LaGrange, Ill., sent along this well-known poetic reminder of all those fallen, "and the reason we wear the poppy."

"In Flanders Fields"
By Lt. John McCrae of the Canadian Army, 1872-1918

In Flanders Fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.
© 2009 msnbc.com Reprints

runawayhorses


Owner
You 2 at it again

I seriously love these exchanges you 2 have, its a great read. But don't mistake my love (amusement) as not being understand or realizing you both have your own issues and reasons to disagree, becuase I do understand that, I just love the way you are always at each others throats,.lmao

In addition, I would also make mention I've seen the both of you get along quite well, you can both do that when you're discussing something other than politics, but whatever, I'm just making an observation.. Very Happy

I know for now there will always be friction between you two, but maybe try and find some neutral ground you both can agree on, or live with. I've always been somewhat of a peacemaker and I can't help but put my 2 cents in. Your situation is factually doable (correctable) if you wanted it to be bad enough, I can see that much, but for the sake of keeping things "real" I'll retract all of that..lmao Razz

SSC


Admin
Sorry Tyler, but in my view you just can't fix stupid. I have given up being civil to Gypsy.......

gypsy


Moderator
Thank you Tyler, I have tried, and will continue to try.I offered SSC a truce she refused, but i will keep trying ..
I can get along with anyone, and also can forgive..I will never give up the belief, of peace.//and the rights of human beings. all have their beliefs, Thank Goodness we live in a country, that allows this~
I do not judge someone for their beliefs, or call them stupid, or things as f*** off, because of some silly vendetta~or because one has different thoughts.. I admire this board, and you, and I will not sully it, by doing so, ever.
I think politics will continue as it does even with our input~mine/ssc.LOL
I will refrain from responding to her..
I have voiced my thoughts,I will try to put more pleasant subjects,for discussion~

I am sorry for my part in the disruption of this board//

SSC


Admin
Jesus Christ you kiss ass good.........I don't want a truce with you, not worth my time...

15 Memorial Day History on Sun May 24, 2009 12:08 am

gypsy


Moderator
Memorial DayHistory


http://www.usmemorialday.org/backgrnd.html

Memorial Day, originally called Decoration Day, is a day of remembrance for those who have died in our nation's service. There are many stories as to its actual beginnings, with over two dozen cities and towns laying claim to being the birthplace of Memorial Day. There is also evidence that organized women's groups in the South were decorating graves before the end of the Civil War: a hymn published in 1867, "Kneel Where Our Loves are Sleeping" by Nella L. Sweet carried the dedication "To The Ladies of the South who are Decorating the Graves of the Confederate Dead" (Source: Duke University's Historic American Sheet Music, 1850-1920). While Waterloo N.Y. was officially declared the birthplace of Memorial Day by President Lyndon Johnson in May 1966, it's difficult to prove conclusively the origins of the day. It is more likely that it had many separate beginnings; each of those towns and every planned or spontaneous gathering of people to honor the war dead in the 1860's tapped into the general human need to honor our dead, each contributed honorably to the growing movement that culminated in Gen Logan giving his official proclamation in 1868. It is not important who was the very first, what is important is that Memorial Day was established. Memorial Day is not about division. It is about reconciliation; it is about coming together to honor those who gave their all.

General John A. Logan
Library of Congress, Prints & Photographs Division, [LC-B8172- 6403 DLC (b&w film neg.)]

Memorial Day was officially proclaimed on 5 May 1868 by General John Logan, national commander of the Grand Army of the Republic, in his General Order No. 11, and was first observed on 30 May 1868, when flowers were placed on the graves of Union and Confederate soldiers at Arlington National Cemetery. The first state to officially recognize the holiday was New York in 1873. By 1890 it was recognized by all of the northern states. The South refused to acknowledge the day, honoring their dead on separate days until after World War I (when the holiday changed from honoring just those who died fighting in the Civil War to honoring Americans who died fighting in any war). It is now celebrated in almost every State on the last Monday in May (passed by Congress with the National Holiday Act of 1971 (P.L. 90 - 363) to ensure a three day weekend for Federal holidays), though several southern states have an additional separate day for honoring the Confederate war dead: January 19 in Texas, April 26 in Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and Mississippi; May 10 in South Carolina; and June 3 (Jefferson Davis' birthday) in Louisiana and Tennessee

runawayhorses


Owner
gypsy wrote:Thank you Tyler, I have tried, and will continue to try.I offered SSC a truce she refused, but i will keep trying ..
I can get along with anyone, and also can forgive..I will never give up the belief, of peace.//and the rights of human beings. all have their beliefs, Thank Goodness we live in a country, that allows this~
I do not judge someone for their beliefs, or call them stupid, or things as f*** off, because of some silly vendetta~or because one has different thoughts.. I admire this board, and you, and I will not sully it, by doing so, ever.
I think politics will continue as it does even with our input~mine/ssc.LOL
I will refrain from responding to her..
I have voiced my thoughts,I will try to put more pleasant subjects,for discussion~

I am sorry for my part in the disruption of this board//
Well, I really don't consider your arguments with SSC a disruption, in fact I find it an interesting read sometimes. So don't feel like its disturbing this board becuase its not. I'm sure no one is bothered or inconvenienced by it. This is a big forum with many different topics, if someone doesn't like your argument thread they can easily read another one.

So my feeling is, carry on and debate/argue with SSC all you want, its not offensive or disturbing this forum at all.

gypsy


Moderator
Thanks Tyler, but I rather not acknowledge her, it isn't beneficial anyway.or pleasant. sure doesn't prove anything the world/US will continue to perform, and our leaders will continue to lead without our help~

I don't relish being called stupid or being cussed, even though it doesn't really bother me I prefer more pleasant circumstances/conversations.. lol all that anger SSC exudes isn't healthy..

also in reply to another subject SSC had to fling. no brown nosing from me. just a good forum, and I am complimenting it~and the one who runs it~ sunny

SSC


Admin
Gypsy if you reply to me then please refrain from attempting to do it in the third person...Come straight at me ...doesn't bother me a bit, sorry you can't handle the fact I am blunt , truthful and straight to the point.
Tyler has a very good point there are many subjects here, I am sure you will find interesting reading . Sorry you felt the need to start a new thread to honor our Veterans , you addition would have been welcomed, plus the stuff you stuck in the Cheney thread about veterans. Don't be afraid to add to anything I post. Those type of posts should be a neutral ground, but politics is a different story......

rosco 357


Veteran
well cheney, is not in any trouble,never have figured that one, as some may seem to think, if he were he would stay out of sight, but as a private citizen now, he can attack what he sees as some mistakes in what plans lie before us, cheney will be just fine, and some other political figures will not agree, i would imagine cheney is enjoying all this,i imagine he loves the joust, he is smart, and is strong in his beliefs and has decided to point out what he sees as weaknesses in new plans, in a new administration, for me i enjoy reading his comments as i enjoy reading others comments,it would be kinda boring, if no one that is well versed in knowledge on all this remained quite, its fun to me anyways, lol, ,take in all knowledge is my view, dont write off any govenment and retired government persons views, but to dismiss anyones views for silly reasons, , is like a horse wearing blinders, consider every view, give weight to everything u read, still alot to play out on this topic, we will see,,it will play out in time, take care

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy wrote:I disagree, I again say Cheney is a thug,and not credible~ he was behind the scenes pulling chains..never saw him he was always in hiding~ now he is worried because his Butt may be in a bind~BOOO!!! Cheney.. what 58 percent of us agree` Good~

I wouldn't put it past Cheney to produce/engage a terrorist attack~~ ummm

see this is what im talking about , blinders on, this is a silly goofy post, no thought put into an opinion, for totally silly reasons,

SSC


Admin
Well thank god someone else besides myself thinks that post and a couple others are totally ridiculous...

gypsy


Moderator
rosco 357 wrote:
gypsy wrote:I disagree, I again say Cheney is a thug,and not credible~ he was behind the scenes pulling chains..never saw him he was always in hiding~ now he is worried because his Butt may be in a bind~BOOO!!! Cheney.. what 58 percent of us agree` Good~

I wouldn't put it past Cheney to produce/engage a terrorist attack~~ ummm

see this is what im talking about , blinders on, this is a silly goofy post, no thought put into an opinion, for totally silly reasons,
thats your opinion, and what i said is mine~ it may have been a bit over board, but i still think cheny is a thug,

i also think we all have said some silly things here~ but as you say that is what makes it interesting~ I am sure if we look back we cn see a few of yours~ and others~

SSC


Admin
Rosco did you know Bush and Cheney invented the terrorist attacks to scare people ???????????
Justifying ridiculous statements rather sounds like a 5th grader trying to keep from sounding terribly guilty, not to mention trying to divert attention away from themselves....Oh the joys of a public forum, never ceases to amaze me what off the wall statements are prone to be placed for heaven knows who to read.
Kinda like a box of chocolates you never know what you are going to come out with....
Scary part of this whole administration is if something were to happen to Obama, then we would be stuck with foot in the mouth Biden and Bella Pelosi....heaven forbid

runawayhorses


Owner
SSC wrote:Well thank god someone else besides myself thinks that post and a couple others are totally ridiculous...
The reason I'm personally not saying if I think some of the posts were ridiculous or not is becuase its irrelevant from my position. All I'm saying is, the posts you speak of were not breaking any forum rules, and is why I said for them to continue if they wanted.

rosco 357


Veteran
sure i understand ur position tyler, at least it keeps things not boring, lol, and i dont mind reading things i consider post i think are in left field, but its the ones that are out of the ball park that get to me. but its like u said no rules broke and actually it makes me get tickled so really i rather enjoy it.. now just think, that last sentence , cheney produce ,and i think engage, i forget the wording . but can u see cheney buying fertilizer, and diesel fuel in large quantity's . even if its totally from outerspace, it still amuses me, OH MY GOSH< a Starbucks was reported on tv, that was bombed, in a residential neighbor hood in new york city,, i pray it was not cheney. LMAO<

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