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1 Amid Queries on Tue May 19, 2009 9:54 am

gypsy


Moderator
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30819117






Amid queries, CIA worries about future
Intelligence officials privately warn new rules may hinder interrogations




Battered by recriminations over waterboarding and other harsh techniques sanctioned by the Bush administration, the CIA is girding itself for more public scrutiny and is questioning whether agency personnel can conduct interrogations effectively under rules set out for the U.S. military, according to senior intelligence officials.

Harsh interrogations were only one part of its clandestine activities against al-Qaeda and other enemies, and agency members are worried that other operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan will come under review, the officials said.

CIA Director Leon Panetta said he has established a group at the agency to handle requests for documents by Congress, the prosecutors and any "truth commission." The agency is facing a dispute with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) over how much agency officials told congressional overseers about the harsh techniques.
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The agency's defensiveness in part reflects a conviction that it is being forced to take the blame for actions approved by elected officials that have since fallen into disfavor. Former CIA director Michael V. Hayden said in an interview that CIA managers and operations officers have again been put "in a horrible position." Hayden recalled an officer asking, "Will I be in trouble five years from now for what I agree to do today?"

Although President Obama has said no CIA officers will be prosecuted for their roles in harsh interrogations if they remained within Justice Department guidelines in effect at the time, agency personnel still face subpoenas and testimony under oath before criminal, civil and congressional bodies.

As part of an ongoing criminal inquiry into the CIA's destruction of videotapes depicting waterboarding, CIA personnel will appear before a grand jury this week, according to two sources familiar with the matter who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the case is continuing. The Senate intelligence committee is pursuing its investigation into whether harsh interrogations, including waterboarding, brought forward worthwhile intelligence, as agency and Bush administration officials have maintained.

Officially, the agency says there is no distraction. "The agency's fight against al-Qaeda and its allies continues undiminished," Paul Gimigliano, the acting head of CIA public affairs, said recently. "The job here, as always, is on getting the job done in accordance with the law." Top agency officials said the mood of concern that exists at headquarters is less apparent among personnel overseas.

Field Manual so broad it's unclear
The Obama administration's decisions to close the U.S. military detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, make public Justice Department memos sanctioning harsh interrogation, and ban techniques authorized by the Bush administration are affecting the agency's operations.

Agency officials said they will carry out any future debriefings or interrogations under provisions of the 2006 version of the Army Field Manual. They said they also will assist other agencies that conduct interrogations in order to assess the accuracy of the information obtained.

Under an executive order signed by Obama on Jan. 20, the Field Manual is "the law of the land. . . . There is nothing outside it now," one intelligence official said. But according to several past agency and military officials, the Field Manual is sometimes so broad as to be unclear.

Its section on interrogation bans "violence, threats, or impermissible or unlawful physical contact," without specifying what is sanctioned. The manual also says an interrogator cannot threaten "the removal of protections afforded by law."

Present and past CIA officials maintain that other legal techniques exist beyond those mentioned in the Field Manual that should be available for use. Panetta has said he would go to the president for authority to use them if he believed it necessary.


Seeking approval for other 'direct' tactics
For example, the "attention grasp," described as "grasping the individual with both hands, one hand on either side of the collar," is one of the 13 techniques employed in the past by the CIA and is listed in the Justice Department's May 10, 2005, memo. It is barred under the Field Manual. Unlike harsher techniques on the list, such as nudity, dietary control, sleep deprivation and waterboarding, CIA officials say they want the authority to use the attention grasp without going back to Washington for approval.

The CIA has also recommended to the presidential task force studying future rules for interrogation that the agency, FBI and Defense Department establish a joint interrogation training center so that all agencies understand the rules under which they operate.

The Field Manual, which was published in 2006, says that "direct approach" interrogation operations in World War II had a 90 percent effectiveness, and those in Vietnam, Kuwait and Iraq had a success rate of 95 percent. Afghanistan since 2002 and Iraq since 2003 are still being studied. "However," it adds, "unofficial studies indicate that in these operations, the direct approach has been dramatically less successful."

Another intelligence official, who also asked not to be identified, said waterboarding and other harsh techniques "were meant to get hardened terrorists to a point where they were willing to answer questions." That capability, the official said, "is now gone."

The special task force set up by Obama in January will determine whether the Field Manual interrogation guidelines are too narrow and whether "additional guidance is necessary for CIA," according to a White House statement. A report on that study is not expected before July.

2 Re: Amid Queries on Tue May 19, 2009 9:00 pm

rosco 357


Veteran
these ppl in the cia put their lives on the line in forgiegn countrys every day , so that we might remain safe here. nothing they may have did bothers me in the least, or nothing they may do in the future , ,,

3 Re: Amid Queries on Tue May 19, 2009 9:43 pm

SSC


Admin
I agree 100% with you Rosco, what they are doing is shielding us from future attacks , what ever information has been obtained should remain private the US public has no business rooting into classified info . What is done is done but if it takes drastic measures to assure our safety then by all means use them. Once someone acts in a threatening manner towards our countries safety then in my opinion they have no rights and should be treated as war criminals and put to death or incarcerated for life. Should they be holding vital information pertaining to our safety they by what ever means it takes to disclose this information this should be done. Obama is not a fool, he can't afford to become to lax in dealing with these monsters, he certainly doesn't want to open a door and let the terrorists attack us again.

4 Re: Amid Queries on Tue May 19, 2009 9:56 pm

gypsy


Moderator
sorry, but it does bother me, because we are a great country,I do not want to be referred to as terrorist, or torturers..after all we are fighting against this ..I also don't like the fact we have broke the law~

I think torture is not needed to gain info, we are a smarter nation than that~ we are not barbarians, or heathens, we have fought against that for 200years +


but!! I also think it is getting stupid,the repubs are not helping their party by trying to blame pelosi~ or anyone else,they were in control when this occured, I will continue to stress this

I like to be considered the good guys, not the bad guys,we have to much intelligence to revert to the same things we are fighting against~

it is good to be respected~ torture is wrong~

I also agree with transparency as obama stated, we the people should know what our government is doing~

5 Re: Amid Queries on Tue May 19, 2009 10:06 pm

gypsy


Moderator
,I think the repubs /bush like to cause fear that is basically how the attacks on Iraq was based on`and the WMDS! why they do this i do not know, but they are again trying to do this, if we don't torture, or do what the enemy does we are in danger~~I think not we need to be more aware, smarter than the enemy..I also think the terroist should be tried if guilty put to death or incarcerated for life~~ torture no~

6 Re: Amid Queries on Tue May 19, 2009 10:29 pm

SSC


Admin
This country has no business being involved in classified information, if it were open to anyone to read then why not just give every terrorist a handbook...Common sence will tell you somethings need to be kept private for our own safety.

Repubs aren't the only ones after Pelosi, she will get her just reward , hopefully run out of power and politics for good.

7 Re: Amid Queries on Tue May 19, 2009 10:34 pm

SSC


Admin
gypsy wrote:,I think the repubs /bush like to cause fear that is basically how the attacks on Iraq was based on`and the WMDS! why they do this i do not know, but they are again trying to do this, if we don't torture, or do what the enemy does we are in danger~~I think not we need to be more aware, smarter than the enemy..I also think the terroist should be tried if guilty put to death or incarcerated for life~~ torture no~

,Gypsy that is a very irresponsible statement. only a person who has no clue would make such an idiotic statement about Repubs and Bush. Causing fear to get their way...that is not only a sick statement but totally sad your mind works in that fashion...You truely need to consider the safety of this country you claim to love so much and stop worrying about about a bunch of ragheads.

8 Re: Amid Queries on Tue May 19, 2009 10:58 pm

gypsy


Moderator
I disagree, fear was the agenda of cheney /Bush~ that is my opinion, they played some Americans like a fiddle !safety?? war is not safety,especially when you attack the wrong country and create fear of wmd's and go after the wrong villain!Hey it isn't just my mind working that way about Bush/cheney many minds have/do~

9 Re: Amid Queries on Tue May 19, 2009 11:16 pm

SSC


Admin
Gypsy don't you think there is already fear in this country ?? Just look what happened in New York with the white house screwup foto session over Manhattan, sent people screaming into the streets in pure fear. That wasn't the terrible Bush ........Your opinion is rather liberal towards terrorists, and as always reeking with Bush hatred.

10 Re: Amid Queries on Tue May 19, 2009 11:17 pm

gypsy


Moderator
SSC wrote:This country has no business being involved in classified information, if it were open to anyone to read then why not just give every terrorist a handbook...Common sence will tell you somethings need to be kept private for our own safety.

Repubs aren't the only ones after Pelosi, she will get her just reward , hopefully run out of power and politics for good.

I agree on if she is lying,or guilty she will get her just rewards, but i want everyone guilty to also get theirs ,if that is the way it goes~ Republicans were in control,after all, so to me they are more guilty, who ever went along with it~ are also~GUILTY!!

11 Re: Amid Queries on Tue May 19, 2009 11:20 pm

gypsy


Moderator
SSC wrote:Gypsy don't you think there is already fear in this country ?? Just look what happened in New York with the white house screwup foto session over Manhattan, sent people screaming into the streets in pure fear. That wasn't the terrible Bush ........Your opinion is rather liberal towards terrorists, and as always reeking with Bush hatred.
no Bush hatred here, just that he is a failure, who should have never been appointed,the first git go~~ also someone major screwed up on the photo, maybe on purpose to try Obama~umm some come to mind~

12 Re: Amid Queries on Tue May 19, 2009 11:22 pm

SSC


Admin
Lying to congress is illegal , but as history shows aka Bill Clinton justice is not always served as it should be.

13 Re: Amid Queries on Tue May 19, 2009 11:28 pm

gypsy


Moderator
ahh so they have to prove it~ right? can they? I hope so~also brohener)ms( also said the CIA misled in 2007 I think. did he lie? now that he thinks he can punish the dems he is backpedaling~ did you read that post i put on this~so lets put all in a line and see who lies more!!.. the repubs are grasping, they have destroyed their party so they in turn want to blame someone~~ I find it laughable~~
also Graham also said he was not briefed on water boarding~ at this same time frame as pelosies

14 Re: Amid Queries on Wed May 20, 2009 12:35 am

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy wrote, "I think torture is not needed to gain info, we are a smarter nation than that~ we are not barbarians, or heathens, we have fought against that for 200years +

so let me understand ur against torture lol, if u dont think stuff like this has gone on for 200+ years in some form and fashion ur head has been in the sand, atleast we dont have scarlet letters anymore or judges burning witches, , but there is so much more to the CIA than this little event, on the grand scale of things over the years, they cut back during some administrations on boots on the ground (spys) in favor of satellite surveillance, i think later they added more boots on the ground. they do things we never know how much safer it makes us..and they do it without fanfare and appreciation, they are working right now all over the world, isreal also has a good intelligence agency, some think better than ours, anyway, i will be glad , this will blow over , the subject has been talked to death, so lets see, ssc says torture and kill them, rosco says torture and kill them, meemoon says beat them to death with a tire tool, lmao, and gypsy, gee i forgot what postion she takes, lol , ok im done,

15 Re: Amid Queries on Wed May 20, 2009 12:50 am

gypsy


Moderator
no I don't think it has gone on, for 200 hundred years~(torture!)burning So called witches was against the law ,it is stopped because our laws say so~ it is against the law~ if it has (gone on)then we would have known about it~ correct me if i am wrong, still doesn't make it right..and if it has by our country, which i don't think it has, then it should be stopped~appreciate the work of the CIA and our protection, but we still should not break the law. after all that is what we(CIA) fight against~~ it is so simple to see this~

16 Re: Amid Queries on Wed May 20, 2009 1:00 am

SSC


Admin
Gypsy, let the past die, your obsession is not very becoming to you. There are so many matters of security you just don't seem to understand, the Govt. isn't going to send to a news letter everytime they learn crutial information, without the CIA keeping tabs on world activities we would be screwed.

17 Re: Amid Queries on Wed May 20, 2009 1:01 am

gypsy


Moderator
gypsy wrote, "I think torture is not needed to gain info, we are a smarter nation than that~ we are not barbarians, or heathens, we have fought against that for 200years +

we came to this country to fight torture,discrimination, to overcome poverty,why should we back slide , what we left one country to free ourselves now we think it is right to do what we fight against? you can argue with me till the pigs fly, but you will not change my belief~we are a wonderful country, why muddy ourselves?

18 Re: Amid Queries on Wed May 20, 2009 1:07 am

SSC


Admin
Various methods of information gathering have been used by this country since the 1800, this is not a new undertaking.

19 Re: Amid Queries on Wed May 20, 2009 1:09 am

gypsy


Moderator
SSC wrote:Gypsy, let the past die, your obsession is not very becoming to you. There are so many matters of security you just don't seem to understand, the Govt. isn't going to send to a news letter everytime they learn crutial information, without the CIA keeping tabs on world activities we would be screwed.
I can let the past die, if we don't keep repeating it~ like i said my belief is firm, we must move on, and not repeat the same mistakes, to do this, rules have to be followed like our constitution, the past prez did not do this~ until it is corrected we can't move forward~ we can't fight,and win by using the same tactics weare fighting against~
so i am through with the subject,torture is a war crime and it should be treated as one! SSC i will cheers for you~ as i said you will not change my mind, i will not change yours~ it is the American way to fight what has been done wrong~ I am not obsessed with anyone, I am rwady to give our new president the same freedom given to all presidents,I pray he does not fail~ we have had enough of failure~

20 Re: Amid Queries on Wed May 20, 2009 1:13 am

gypsy


Moderator
SSC wrote:Various methods of information gathering have been used by this country since the 1800, this is not a new undertaking.
//then it is time to grow and move forward not repeat the 1800's after all it is 2009! we are suppose to grow, not adopt old practices. mistakes were made also from these old practices

ok now i have made many points..
I don't live in the past 1800's i live now, it is time we grow, and improve..Change!

21 Re: Amid Queries on Sat May 23, 2009 8:41 pm

SSC


Admin
It is very simple to see things in ones mind if that is the only picture you are willing to view. Obama is learning it isn't as easy as he talked in his campagne hype . Anything to get votes...Now comes the nut cuttin and he is seeing Bush was not as off base on security as he blasted him. Just think Gypsy your freedom and the security of you loved ones lies in Obama's hands...I take issues with defense funding cutbacks, don't make this country vulnerable or appear weakened.

22 Re: Amid Queries Today at 3:32 pm

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