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SSC


Admin
What blows your mind ? The fact waterboarding dates back to 1899 and Bush didn't invent it...
This is just a small history lesson for you like it or not.
As far as slavery , didn't bother me at all. Have things really changed that much ? Blacks work as maids, yard boys only difference now days is they are paid much better but it seems they are very content serving the white race in menial jobs.

gypsy


Moderator
SSC wrote:Didn't mean to post the same article twice...

To answer your question Gyp no I would not want a loved one subjected to waterboarding, but in times of war there are no easy ways out . BUt in the case of a terrorist to save American lives all is fair as it has been shown down thru the ages long before Bush was born. Just because you didn;t do your homework on the history of waterboarding, your blame on Bush just went out the window.
also in times of war how do we know who is innocent>?

it has not been proved or documented it has saved lives, or that it has down thru the ages.like your southern slavery has done anything good
, then it is a law breaker, then why are you defending it>? it has been proved they who are subjected to this type of torture,interrogation are programmed~~ so we are putting America down, by allowing this..I truley hope all involved is prosecuted
it is a black mark the Bush era.. and I wish it had not happened

Guest


Guest
Roscoe wrote: "waterboarding is not concidered torture, but "enhanced techniques," i dont think it inflicts pain , but fear as like u are drowning .. but actually they got info that saved alot of lives, so really i would not care...." /// This sums up my attitude. What torture is now and what it was 50, 100, 1000, years ago have very different definitions. None of us here have given a precise,legal definition of "torture". Not necessary, you say? Well,it certainly is if one is to be prosecuted in a court of law. Those jailors at Abu Grahib were punished for various violations of the military code of conduct,not torture. How can any official be punished for torturing prisoners when it has NOT been established that waterboarding IS torture? You want waterboarding to be written up as "torture" in the military code or CIA operations manual? Good luck. You want that definition to grandfather back to ALL previous applixcations of waterboarding? You'll need more than luck. The waterboarding has stopped. This whole operation is nothing more than a politically motivated witch hunt.

SSC


Admin


Study this very closely Gypsy and tell me how you think the innocent victims in these buildings felt. Had we the info from any type of interrogation methods to prevent this do you not feel it would have been worth the lives lost ?

gypsy


Moderator
I don't think torture is right in any form~ I don't think torture would have saved this happening~ nothing you put or say will divert me from thinking torture is right,it is illegal~ and should be prosecuted~ I do think we have exhausted the subject though~ we each know the others opinion~. I hope the people who oked the torture are punished` and corruption in our government is cleaned up~
plus this horrific thing happened before the tortures were oked~~

SSC


Admin
Hello..torture methods have been used since 1899, by the US and other countries. If it stops just one whacko raghead then more power to it. Do you really think these crazed terrorists will divulge vital information on planned attacks on their own...Hell no but shoot the water to them and they sing like birds...
What is the price of an American life worth to you Gypsy ? Or do you want to continue to sympathize with the enemy ?

gypsy


Moderator
not by the united states, that is why it is being questioned and investigated~ because the Past administration oked it~ if we have used torture before why hasn't it surfaced~ even if we did it still was wrong, and it should have been investigated~ asi said nothing you say will change my mind~ your arguments are invalid, torture is wrong~and illegal it makesus no better than the terrorism we are fighting against ok now i have finished my point on this subject, again i hope the ones who oked it are prosecuted dems/repubs whoever~ ssc don't start that attack Shit,i don't sympathize with the enemy~

gypsy


Moderator
ssc just one more point, it seems every time we debate,and you can't win or I make good points you begin the bullying, do you think words can be torture? like suggesting i am sympathizing with the enemy, one time you called me anti american~ why do you do that?

SSC


Admin
Sorry Gyp but from your attitude it is very obvious you do sympathize. To not want to save American lives by what ever means it takes can be called nothing but a sympathizer.
You have been given all the proof waterboarding has been used for years and years long before the dreaded Bush, but you refuse to admit it. Turning a blind eye doesn't make it go away.

This is how you display yourself. I don't feel there is a win or loss on these debates, only both sides presented. You are always playing the victim , sorry on an open forum all is fair. If you become confused back out the conversation until you can bring yourself up to date on the subject. Or get assistance from a friend on your resources. You manage to avoid a great deal of the posts only replying to those you think you know something about.

gypsy


Moderator
and your full of shit, no proof was ever shown that torture saved lives,and torture is illegal and morally wrong,why would it be investigated if it wasn't?? so your accusing mecalling me a sympathizer and anti american doesn't win the debate and doesn't make you right~ has nothing to do with the truth` of the subject~ you can't win so you bully~ same old story,same old ssc, that is my choice choosing what posts i want to respond to, your being very silly~ I am not a sympathizer of the enemy or anti american I don't appreciate you calling me this` no your not fair~ at all I don't need anytone to help me write ot voice thank you

gypsy


Moderator
You have been given all the proof waterboarding has been used for years and years long before the dreaded Bush, but you refuse to admit it. Turning a blind eye doesn't make it go away.
//you have provided no proof of waterboarding being done by the US in the past //

This is how you display yourself. I don't feel there is a win or loss on these debates, only both sides presented. You are always playing the victim , sorry on an open forum all is fair. If you become confused back out the conversation until you can bring yourself up to date on the subject. Or get assistance from a friend on your resources. You manage to avoid a great deal of the posts only replying to those you think you know something about.
//playing the victim?? that is laughable,I have stood for the right thing with my remarks,and beliefs. the subject was torture and is water boarding considered torture? I believe it has by the investigating into it~ it needs pursued and corrected.posts I thinkii know something about?? LOL and your the expert? now i am laughing~

ok I have voiced my thoughts and i don't stand alone, a lot of people in this country also believe as i do~ I think cruelty in any form to humans/animals is torture~ I think also from your actions /writings your a cruel person~

SSC


Admin
In September 1987, during the Reagan administration, the United States executed an extraordinary rendition, codenamed Goldenrod, in a joint FBI-CIA operation. Fawaz Yunis, who was wanted in the U.S. courts for his role in the hijacking of a Jordanian airliner that had American citizens onboard, was lured onto a boat off the coast of Cyprus and taken to international waters, where he was arrested.

"The Reagan administration did not undertake this kidnapping lightly. Then-FBI Director William Webster had opposed an earlier bid to snatch Yunis, arguing that the United States should not adopt the tactics of Israel, which had abducted Adolf Eichmann on a residential street in Buenos Aires, Argentina, in 1960... In 1984 and 1986, during a wave of terrorist attacks, Congress passed laws making air piracy and attacks on Americans abroad federal crimes. Ronald Reagan added teeth to these laws by signing a secret covert-action directive in 1986 that authorized the CIA to kidnap, anywhere abroad, foreigners wanted for terrorism. A new word entered the dictionary of U.S. foreign relations: rendition."[18]
The American Civil Liberties Union alleges that extraordinary rendition was developed during the Clinton administration by CIA officials in the mid-1990s who were trying to track down and dismantle militant Islamic organizations in the Middle East, particularly Al Qaeda [19].

According to Clinton administration official Richard Clarke:

“ 'extraordinary renditions', were operations to apprehend terrorists abroad, usually without the knowledge of and almost always without public acknowledgment of the host government…. The first time I proposed a snatch, in 1993, the White House Counsel, Lloyd Cutler, demanded a meeting with the President to explain how it violated international law. Clinton had seemed to be siding with Cutler until Al Gore belatedly joined the meeting, having just flown overnight from South Africa. Clinton recapped the arguments on both sides for Gore: "Lloyd says this. Dick says that. Gore laughed and said, 'That's a no-brainer. Of course it's a violation of international law, that's why it's a covert action. The guy is a terrorist. Go grab his ass.'" [20] ”

Both the Reagan and Clinton cases involved apprehending known terrorists abroad, by covert means if necessary. The policy later expanded.

In a New Yorker interview with CIA veteran Michael Scheuer, an author of the rendition program under the Clinton administration, writer Jane Mayer noted, "In 1995, American agents proposed the rendition program to Egypt, making clear that it had the resources to track, capture, and transport terrorist suspects globally — including access to a small fleet of aircraft. Egypt embraced the idea... 'What was clever was that some of the senior people in Al Qaeda were Egyptian,' Scheuer said. 'It served American purposes to get these people arrested, and Egyptian purposes to get these people back, where they could be interrogated.' Technically, U.S. law requires the CIA to seek 'assurances' from foreign governments that rendered suspects won’t be tortured. Scheuer told me that this was done, but he was 'not sure' if any documents confirming the arrangement were signed."[

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary/rendition

I am cruel..you are nipping again..I am a realist, not some left over hippie stuck in time...What are your priorties Gypsy ? Safety of our country or rights of terrorists ?

gypsy


Moderator
that article proves nothing about torture,sure the terrorist should be apprehended at no cost,,I am a true American but i don't believe torture solves anything.. you resolve everytime into name calling when u can't get me to side with you,your wrong on torture it isn't ok,it is breaking the law. if they are terrorist try them if found guilty execute them` or put in prison ..I have made my point.now i am through, i think the people who authorized torture should be fired/impeached and serve time.for it

SSC


Admin
Just incase you couldn't comprehend the article, it shows Reagan and Clinton were involved in forms of torture during their time in office. But maybe you don't want to hear that. I wholeheartedly believe if torture is what it takes to protect the people of this country then so be it.
Once again you are playing the victim, so far this debate has gone pretty smooth compared to some. I am not cruel , I just hold the value of the American citizens lives in high esteem, and feel it should be protected at any cost.

gypsy


Moderator
i am sure not a left over hippie,I was married,during that era. my era was the fifties ~ there you go again thinking you know my life~ lol heck i never smoked a joint until my kids were grown and did it to just see what it was about~~

SSC


Admin
Sorry smoking a joint doesn't impress me as Moon can attest to.

gypsy


Moderator
SSC wrote:Just incase you couldn't comprehend the article, it shows Reagan and Clinton were involved in forms of torture during their time in office. But maybe you don't want to hear that. I wholeheartedly believe if torture is what it takes to protect the people of this country then so be it.
Once again you are playing the victim, so far this debate has gone pretty smooth compared to some. I am not cruel , I just hold the value of the American citizens lives in high esteem, and feel it should be protected at any cost.
//

were does it say torture? in that article, torture is the subject/waterboarding is torture,that is the subject,i didn't see waterboarding in the article you just pasted~
I am not playing the victim, it was going very smooth until you called me a sympathizer with terroist or enemies, that is untrue~ now since you can't debate, or carry on civilized i will ignore you again~~ I am through with my side of the argument,the torture was done and it is illegal~~ end of subject~

gypsy


Moderator
SSC wrote:Sorry smoking a joint doesn't impress me as Moon can attest to.
I wasn't trying to impress u, for certain I don't need to, or intend to. u called me stuck in the old hippie time frame I told you i wasn't a hippie never was~ I grew up in the fifties married in the sixties

SSC


Admin
Once again the article refers to torture of suspect terrorists with the knowledge of the US presidents, with all the information presented wouldn't it be safe to say waterboarding as well as other forms of interrogation were used.
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't smoking pot illegal ?? Should you be prosecuted for an illegal act ?? Laws are laws the way you protray it. Now I am thru with you....be the victim, be the sympathizer all you want , your stance is to weak to reply to any longer.

95 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:21 pm

gypsy


Moderator
no it isn't feasible to say water boarding was used, if the article didn't mention torture or water boarding

yes pot is illegal, I don't do pot ~~ i tried it once like two puffs~ so report me LOL still doesn't have anything to do with the subject of torture or water boarding.,yes i answered you once more~ Now i am through answering you~ yes exactly my thoughts your not worth debating~ I again state the article said nothing about torture or waterboarding~ i don't assume anything~

96 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:44 pm

rosco 357


Veteran
runawayhorses wrote:
rosco 357 wrote:waterboarding is not concidered torture,
Care to try it out? No, I didn't think so.
actuallly i had thought of that, i think i might would like to try it, so then i would know, i probably cant hold my breath as long as the terrorist, lol , but really i had thought about it, u answered for me before i could, lol,, take care,

97 im fixing to waterboard my grandaugher, lol on Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:57 pm

rosco 357


Veteran
she can ride that tube behind the boat, i turn it so she is on one side then turn sharp, and it makes her cross the wake fast and bounce, then in the sharp turn once she is outside the wake , man she is flying, as i sling her, sometimes she comes off and skips like a rock, but most the time she hangs on, and she is 12 ,, she loves to tube,

98 there is one thing concidered torture, on Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:03 pm

rosco 357


Veteran
this torture practice would i admit be cruel and unusual treatment, make all terrorist read all gypsys post, i bet they would sing like birds and turn over all there bad guy terrorist friends, and go home and tell the other muslims, man dont fu** with america they have his technique of reading that make some water in ur face easy, lmao,

99 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:03 pm

gypsy


Moderator
we use to ride the round board i forgot what it was called ,we were pulled behind the boat, we did fly it was fun and a bit scarry~ I was nine when i first learned to ski and ride the round board~ hah i bet she loves it .

100 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:05 pm

gypsy


Moderator
rosco 357 wrote:this torture practice would i admit be cruel and unusual treatment, make all terrorist read all gypsys post, i bet they would sing like birds and turn over all there bad guy terrorist friends, and go home and tell the other muslims, man dont fu** with america they have his technique of reading that make some water in ur face easy, lmao,
haha very funny Rosco~~

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