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126 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:56 am

SSC


Admin
Statically the success rate in these drug programs is 3%. A very low number considering how many thousands of 11-17 year olds are put thru these intense rehad programs.

127 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:19 am

runawayhorses


Owner
SSC wrote: Last night in New Orleans a man 55 years old loaded on weed hit a pregnant woman , killed her and her unborn twins...I just don't see the value in organics.
With marijuana there is no consistent connection with users becoming murders after using it, that's ridiculous. When cases like that come up under the classification of drugs being involved, the person was using other drugs as well, maybe acid or alcohol or LSD, and many other drugs types, or maybe, just maybe, they were already crazy, could that be it

I suppose you believe that this movie below is an accurate depiction of the affects of smoking marijuana too.. I have never heard of any consistent cases of people becoming violent after smoking marijuana, it doesn't have that affect at all, in fact just the opposite. It doesn't make some people want to put a lampshade on their head either, or kill someone, other drugs can make that claim, but not marijuana.

You could make the argument that marijuana was in the blood system of the many murder cases and show statistics to that affect, but so was other drugs found in their systems, including caffeine, does that make caffeine the cause of their outrage? No, it was just in their system too.

It's not my intention to start a debate with you on this subject, I'm aware you already have your viewpoints and probably can't be changed by a convo online (or anywhere else for that matter), and considering you've discussed this topic before with Moon, I would guess you probably don't want to go down that road again right now, but I just wanted to voice my opinion on it for what its worth. I don't expect nor am I trying to change anybody's mind. Quite frankly, I'm not looking for a debate at all.

Reefer Madness

128 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:26 pm

SSC


Admin
Tyler just as I did with Moon we came to an understanding of each others views and respected that. I am not out to change the world . Being surrounded by the youth my daughter councils I hear and see alot of pitiful stories. Most of her kids have parents who either smoke weed or are doing harder drugs, so these kids have no chance, with no parental support. One girl is forced by her mother to score weed for her 80 year old grandmother. The stories these young people tell are heart breaking, when they are trying to turn their lives around and stay out of jail. I don't fault you for your drug of choice, but that also doesn't mean I approve of it . It is each to his own as far as I am concerned.

129 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:05 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
Well, I might not approve of the drugs you use either, and that's your business not mine. If you want to take aspirins and caffeine and pretend its good for you, I can't stop you, you're on your own, but to each to his own I always say..

130 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:10 pm

SSC


Admin
Just for the record I don't take aspirin nor do I use anything with caffeine, a multi-vitamin is my strongest vice.

131 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:13 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
Oh Boy excuse me..

132 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:14 pm

gypsy


Moderator
you don't drink tea either? I am a caffeine addict.. lol my doctor says two aspirin a day is good for the heart, but i am allergic to them` so can't take aspirin..

133 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:16 pm

SSC


Admin
Each to his own, is an answer to the topic.

134 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:18 pm

SSC


Admin
gypsy wrote:you don't drink tea either? I am a caffeine addict.. lol my doctor says two aspirin a day is good for the heart, but i am allergic to them` so can't take aspirin..

If I do drink something it is decaf, but I find a glass of orange juice in the morning works for me , I to am allergic to aspirin.

135 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:20 pm

gypsy


Moderator
SSC wrote:
gypsy wrote:you don't drink tea either? I am a caffeine addict.. lol my doctor says two aspirin a day is good for the heart, but i am allergic to them` so can't take aspirin..

If I do drink something it is decaf, but I find a glass of orange juice in the morning works for me , I to am allergic to aspirin.
WOW we do have something in common~ cheers

136 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:26 pm

SSC


Admin
Yes I guess we do.

137 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:11 am

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy wrote:you don't drink tea either? I am a caffeine addict.. lol my doctor says two aspirin a day is good for the heart, but i am allergic to them` so can't take aspirin..
well that is ashame ur alergic to aspirin, i know after my moms bypass the drs had her on asprin, my dr has me on the 81 mg coated aspirin and im heart healthy, as i got my test back , which were routine, .i had read one of the best things a person can do for their heart is take a maintenace aspirin,i think it helps keep the plaque from building up in ur arteries i think,but not sure that is the reason,, some ppl cant because of stomach problems, that cant tolerate them, i had read a study where they had nurses take a whole 250 mg coated asprin every other day, i asked my dr about that, but he told me to just take a baby asprin every day, the other is to hard to remember, but i dont take the baby one as its 81 mg also but i take the coated so it dissolves so it not as hard on ur stomach, but noting like that has ever hurt my stomach, i have been on 500 mg of naproxin, which is alieve but a tad stronger dose, they were coated, only a short time when i was hurt at work,and when i had a foot problem, but u dont need to take any of this on an empty stomach, i assume gyp he has u on some form of blood thinner,my mom was till test showed the asprin actually made it thinner and was cheeper, about MJ , see i cant even spell it, lol, i think the best thing that is helping in all illegal drugs, is like if anyone at work gets hurt, and they take to emergency or occupational clinic as i was , the first thing they do is do a drug and alcohol test. if it postitive u no longer have a job, some companys do random test, ours does not but i would not be against it, i guess i do get caffine in tea and cokes but i just as well could do non caffine on both, and on the job thing, someone said , if u test postive for illegal substance or alcohol. they dont have to put you on workmens comp, in that case, but im not sure on that just a co worker said that... take care

138 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:52 am

gypsy


Moderator
my allergy to aspirin is not the stomach, my breathing passages close up, my eyes swell shut~ and it is very scary, i found out about 30 years ago,I was allergic to them~

glad your tests came back good, did you take the stress test?

139 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:00 am

gypsy


Moderator
wonder how long alcohol stays in your body? I read in the paper the other day where a guy was going to work early that morning after anight of drinking, the cops pulled him over,said he was weaving the test showed alcohol in his system.it had been eight hours since his last drink`

140 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:14 am

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy wrote:my allergy to aspirin is not the stomach, my breathing passages close up, my eyes swell shut~ and it is very scary, i found out about 30 years ago,I was allergic to them~

glad your tests came back good, did you take the stress test?
yes and they have 2 stress test i had the better one, where they put in radioactive material into ur veins while on the treadmill, then crank it up , she said they want to see all the radioactive material all through ur heart,it would show a blockage better than not using the radioactive stuff,, just a better test, but he did the scan before and after the tread mill so the first one i had nothing in me and at heart at rest,, but i came home looking like an octopus had attacked me, with the puting on and takeing of the sticker things,they even ruffed up my skin, like with a scothguard pad so the sticker things would get a good connection, i took the echo test first, then he pictured my heart with the stress thing that goes around u, then the tread mill then the same machine that scans ur heart like i had before the tread mill,did that again, with the stuff in me,

141 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:22 am

gypsy


Moderator
ok, yes that is basically what my tedt consisted of~

142 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:24 am

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy wrote:wonder how long alcohol stays in your body? I read in the paper the other day where a guy was going to work early that morning after anight of drinking, the cops pulled him over,said he was weaving the test showed alcohol in his system.it had been eight hours since his last drink`

i work with like a 30 something years old guy, he is smart but has a drinking problem, he would not have a job if my boss did not cover for him, he got divorced his wifes idea, only thing is she smokes pot, and not sure what else, and he drinks, and lost his license, , rode a bicycle to work some lol, it pittyful, his daughter told the judge her mom just wants daddys work money to buy pot in court, but he has a record on drinking, so it was a wash, i have no idea how long it stays in ur system,on drugs united states steel mill here does not do urine test, on pot and cocaine i guess, and other drugs, the only test ur hair sample, i think it stays in ur hair much longer, but not sure of the time frame,

SSC


Admin
Despite reports , Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Was Not Waterboarded 183 Times
The number of times Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded was the focus of major media attention -- and highly misleading.
By Joseph Abrams

FOXNews.com

Tuesday, April 28, 2009
New York Times reported last week that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the alleged mastermind of the Sept. 11 terror attacks, was waterboarded 183 times in one month by CIA interrogators. The "183 times" was widely circulated by news outlets throughout the world.

It was shocking. And it was highly misleading. The number is a vast inflation, according to information from a U.S. official and the testimony of the terrorists themselves.

A U.S. official with knowledge of the interrogation program told FOX News that the much-cited figure represents the number of times water was poured onto Mohammed's face -- not the number of times the CIA applied the simulated-drowning technique on the terror suspect. According to a 2007 Red Cross report, he was subjected a total of "five sessions of ill-treatment."

"The water was poured 183 times -- there were 183 pours," the official explained, adding that "each pour was a matter of seconds."

The Times and dozens of other outlets wrote that the CIA also waterboarded senior Al Qaeda member Abu Zubaydah 83 times, but Zubayda himself, a close associate of Usama bin Laden, told the Red Cross he was waterboarded no more than 10 times.

The confusion stems from language in the Justice Department legal memos that President Obama released on April 16. They contain the numbers, but they fail to explain exactly what they represent.

The memos, spanning from 2002-2005, were a legal review by the Bush administration that approved the use of waterboarding and other "enhanced interrogation techniques." Obama banned the procedure on his second day in office, saying that waterboarding is torture.

Click here to see Memo 1 | Memo 2 | Memo 3 | Memo 4

The memos describe the controversial process: a detainee is strapped to a gurney with his head lowered and a cloth placed on his face. Interrogators pour water onto the cloth, which cuts off air flow to the mouth and nostrils, tripping his gag reflex, causing panic and giving him the sensation that he is drowning.

At that point the cloth would be removed, the gurney rotated upright and the detainee would be allowed to breathe. The technique could be repeated a few times during a waterboarding session; Zubaydah said it was generally used once or twice, but he said he was waterboarded three times during one session.

The Justice Department memos described the maximum allowed use of the waterboard on any detainee, based on tactical training given to U.S. troops to resist interrogations:

-- Five days of use in one month, with no more than two "sessions" in a day;
-- Up to six applications (something like a dunk) lasting more than 10 seconds but less than 40 seconds per session;
-- 12 minutes of total "water application" in a 24-hour period

Bloggers who read the memos last week noted that the CIA's math "doesn't add up" -- meaning that the 12 long pours allowed in a day couldn't add up to the 12 minutes mentioned in the memo, and they could barely even guess how the detainees could have been waterboarded an astounding 286 times in one month.

The memos did not note that the sessions would be made up of a number of short pours -- the ones the U.S. official said lasted "a matter of seconds" -- and that created the huge numbers quoted by the New York Times: 183 on Mohamed, 83 on Zubaydah.

Pours, not waterboards.

A close look at a Red Cross report on the interrogations makes the numbers even clearer.

As the Red Cross noted: "The suffocation procedure was applied [to Abu Zubaydah] during five sessions of ill-treatment ... in 2002. During each session, apart from one, the suffocation technique was applied once or twice; on one occasion it was applied three times."

The total number of applications: between eight and 10 -- not the 83 mentioned in the Times.

Mohammed similarly told the Red Cross that "I was also subjected to 'water-boarding' on five occasions, all of which occurred during the first month." Those were his five "sessions"; the precise number of applications is not known but is a fraction of the 183 figure.

All of those individual pours were scrupulously counted by the CIA, according to the memos, to abide by the procedures set up for the waterboardings.

"[I]t is important that every application of the waterboard be thoroughly documented: how long each application (and the entire procedure) lasted, how much water was used in the process," read a memo from May 10, 2005.

Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, the only other detainee known to be waterboarded, was not discussed in the memos.

The Times wrote that until the release of the memos, "the precise number" of 286 total waterboardings was not known.

And the precise number of waterboarding sessions is still not known. What is known is that Mohammed was not waterboarded 183 times.

144 Re: As Bush Adviser, Rice Gave OK to Waterboard on Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:26 am

rosco 357


Veteran
i never did put much confidence into those inflated numbers, sometimes it is easy to
tell that somethings just dont add up, this was one of those times,

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