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1 sorrow and sadness on Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:24 pm

gypsy


Moderator
it is so hard to let go,a loved one is part of our soul

Mother,Father,Child,Grandchild,husband/wife,friends.
we never want to go there,
but death is a part of life,the minute we are born,we start to die..

Love always to the grieving

I think they must be in a better place,my opinion only..


so many steps to healing,
you experience one by one

remembering,anger,love, so many---
we all have the sorrow..

remember their suffering is over

Love, to all

2 Re: sorrow and sadness on Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:32 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
gypsy wrote:

I think they must be in a better place,my opinion only..l

I'm not troubled by people who hold different beliefs, only those who really do not know why they believe what they do.

Unlike you, I am not willing to sacrifice my logic and common sense, and if you pardon the expression "God given ability to reason" with an unsubstantiated "opinion".

As demonstrated by your earlier posts when someone posts an opinion, you have always frowned upon Blogs and news reports that only expressed opinions, interesting you don't hold the same value to your opinions with something as important as "God" and his Heaven.

3 Re: sorrow and sadness on Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:56 pm

gypsy


Moderator
I see, and understand Tyler

4 Re: sorrow and sadness on Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:25 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
Well, if you see and understand, then you of course acknowledge the fact that you do not know if there is indeed a God, and that you are only speculating and guessing, forming an "opinion" as it were.

I don't expect you to convince me, or make an argument, about something you're not even sure about of yourself, so don't bother quoting scripture to me in an attempt to get your point across that way, the scripture is relative to an "opinion" and belief, and is in my mind, not a trustworthy source, and is irrelevant.

Now don't go thinking I'm picking on you, I'm not, I think religion is sometimes good for forums to get a discussion going. So feel free to express. We just don't have a entire forum devoted to it, but it CAN be discussed.

5 Re: sorrow and sadness on Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:48 am

SSC


Admin
Now is probably not the best time for me to post my views on god and all his wonders, but I have read this post since it hit the board, first thinking the timing could not have sucked any worse.
In the last 9 days my whole life has turned upside down. I sit here watching my 12 year old granddaughter who had rock solid faith in her god shake her fist to the heavens and scream at her god how could he be so cruel to take her Paw-Paw and make her hurt so bad.Never in my whole life have I heard such pain in a voice.
So lets talk about god....Is there one ? Where ?? What kind of a god is he ? Sadistic ? Compassionate ? Or could it be it is all a myth, something invented to control the weak and scared. The preachers thump the bible with words to intimidate, trying to convince the flock to fill the collection plate and buy their way to the golden gates of heaven.
Don't fear death they say. Now lets stop and think, how do any of these people have a clue to what happens at death. I just watched death, I watched monitors slowly drop numbers till all that was left were straight lines. I didn't see any miracle take place, no angels swooping down, no mysterious mist in the air, only the body of my husband laying lifeless. His life had ended, no trumpets just silence.
So please explain this god to me .

6 Re: sorrow and sadness on Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:40 am

runawayhorses


Owner
Well, as you know my father passed away a few weeks ago and this kind of discussion (religion, God) doesn't bother me. The timing to me was perfect becuase it is what was on my mind at that time. If it disturbed you when you first read it I sincerely apologize. Having said that, it was written more for my own sanity than anything else. It does me good to get thoughts off my chest sometimes.

You know I'm an Agnostic so my view on God's existence is "I Do Not Know". But what I'm SURE of is the bibles God is false. No God would do the things the bible teaches. Anyway and whatever, it is just my opinion and not meant to offend anyone, at least not this time..lol

7 Re: sorrow and sadness on Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:34 am

gypsy


Moderator
I wasn't going o post about this, but I felt I need to explain myself once again
I meant this post as a comfort for those who have gone through the pain of losing someone they love
I have lost two children,and a grand child,and nu erous friends.relatives. so i know what it is like.

my post was taken in the wrong context, I am not preaching or pushing my belief..

I respect others belief, i only ask you respect mine..

8 Re: sorrow and sadness on Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:48 am

runawayhorses


Owner
gypsy wrote:my post was taken in the wrong context, I am not preaching or pushing my belief..

I respect others belief, i only ask you respect mine..
I never thought you were pushing your belief, I was only thinking out loud, it wasn't a retort to your post only an observation, and perhaps out of context to your post, but it was just my thoughts at the moment. Excuse my intrusion on your topic, it was probably posted in the wrong place, I should have created a new topic in the general thoughts section and posted it their. My Mistake.

9 Re: sorrow and sadness on Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:14 pm

runawayhorses


Owner

10 Re: sorrow and sadness on Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:27 pm

SSC


Admin
Tyler, my problems were not with your reply to Gypsy's post, It was in the content of her post, I am sure she ment well, but I do not believe in a ..better place...nor do I believe in the whole God theory.

11 Re: sorrow and sadness on Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:45 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
Ok, after reading that again a second time after I posted I started to get the feeling you might have meant her post, again my mistake for thinking you meant mine. Shit, I'm gettin everything wrong lately,

Oh well,..

12 Re: sorrow and sadness on Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:56 pm

SSC


Admin
No silly you aren't getting everything wrong, you are just a mortal like the rest of us .

13 Re: sorrow and sadness on Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:12 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
Thank you, and yes I am..

14 Think about life after death on Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:44 am

SSC


Admin
Think about life after death

If you are a Christian, then Jesus promises that your soul will have everlasting life. In John 3:16 the Bible says: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." All that you have to do is believe in Jesus and your soul gets to go to heaven.

But have you ever really thought about your soul? Have you ever thought about how the afterlife would work? Which life forms get an afterlife and which do not?

Start with a bacterium. Does it have a soul and does it get an afterlife? A bacterium is a cell membrane filled with a variety of molecules. These molecules react together in different ways to create what we call life. Although all of these molecules are reacting in fascinating, interlocking ways, they are still nothing more than chemicals reacting. The "miracle of life" is no miracle -- it is a big chemical reaction. When those reactions stop, the cell is dead.

Now here is the question: When the bacterium dies, does it get an afterlife?

There are not many people in the United States who believe that bacteria go to heaven. The Bible does not talk about heaven being filled with all the disease, putrefaction and pestilence that bacteria cause. And what, exactly, would go to heaven? Do all of the bacterium's molecules get transported to another dimension so that they can keep reacting? If that were happening, there would be thousands of tons of chemicals leaving earth every day. Clearly there is no afterlife for bacteria cells.

What about mosquitoes? A mosquito is much more complex than a bacterium cell. For one thing, a mosquito is a multi-cellular insect with amazing capabilities. But if you look at each cell in a mosquito, it is very much like a bacterium in its basic functioning.

Do mosquitoes get an afterlife? Clearly not. Think of how many mosquitoes have lived and died over the course of millions of years. No one imagines heaven being full of septillions of everlasting mosquitoes. There is also the problem that we saw with bacteria -- the only way for a mosquito to go to heaven would be to somehow transport all the chemicals in a mosquito from earth to heaven.

What about mice? They are no different from mosquitoes. Mice are multicellular organisms, but each cell is a little chemical factory very much like a bacterium. Dogs? Ditto. Chimps? Ditto.

So what about humans?

The human body is nothing but a set of chemical reactions. The chemical reactions powering a human life are no different from the reactions powering the life of a bacterium, a mosquito, a mouse, a dog or a chimp. When a human being dies, the chemical reactions stop. There is no "soul" mixed in with the chemicals, just like there is no soul in a bacterium, a mosquito, a mouse, a dog or a chimp. Why would there be an afterlife for the chemicals that make up a human body?

The whole notion of your "soul" is completely imaginary. The concept of a "soul" has been invented by religion because many people have trouble facing their own mortality. It makes people feel better, but the concept is a complete fabrication.

It is when you think about the chemical reactions powering your life and your brain that you realize how completely imaginary your "soul" truly is. And at that point, everything about religion comes unraveled.

Think back to when you were a kid and you realized that Santa was imaginary. As soon as you knew it, it was obvious. Reindeer cannot fly. A man cannot slide down chimneys. There is no way for one little sleigh to carry all the toys for all the kids in the world. Etc. It is obvious that Santa is make believe.

In the same way, it is obvious that human beings are big, walking chemical reactions (see this article for a description of how the reactions work). Your "soul" is make believe just like Santa. When the chemical reactions cease, you die. That is the end of it.

Knowing this, you can see that everything about religion is imaginary. God, the Bible, Jesus, the resurrection, prayer, the Ten Commandments, the creation story, your soul, everlasting life, heaven... every bit of it is the product of human imagination. The same goes for Allah, the Koran and so on. As a species we have believed all of this religious dogma for centuries, and most of us believe it today to some degree. And yet... it is all fiction. Today's "God" is just as fictional as were the gods of the Egyptians, the Romans and the Aztecs.


Understanding the Rationalizations
Christians will rationalize the concept of the soul by saying that the soul is a magical element that has nothing to do with cell chemistry. God divinely "instills the soul in each of us." According to believers, the soul is of another dimension and therefore is beyond science.

Whenever you hear people talking about "magic" and "other dimensions", it is a clear marker for delusion. It is as simple as that. The soul is a completely imaginary concept, as is God.

http://godisimaginary.com

15 Re: sorrow and sadness on Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:03 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
That brings to mind George Carlin's thoughts on Abortion:




More Carlin:

These conservatives are really something, aren't they? They are all in favor of the unborn, they will do anything for the unborn, but once you're born, you're on your own! Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that they don't want to know about you, they don't want to hear from you . . . no neo-natal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing! If you're pre-born, you're fine. If you're pre-school, you're fucked.

Conservatives don't give a shit about you until you reach military age. Then they think you are just fine, just what they've been looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers.

Pro-life... these people aren't pro-life, they're killing doctors! What kind of pro-life is that? They'll do anything they can to save a fetus, but if it grows up to be a doctor they just might have to kill it? They're not pro-life. You know what they are? They're anti-woman. Simple as it gets, anti-woman -- they don't like them. They don't like women. They believe a woman's primary role is to function as a broodmare for the state. Pro-life, you don't see many of these anti-abortion women volunteering to have any black fetuses transplanted into their uteruses, do you? No, you don't see them adopting a whole lot of crack babies, do you? No, that might be something Christ would do! And you won't see a lot of these pro-life people dousing themselves in kerosene and lighting themselves on fire. You know, morally committed people in South Vietnam knew how to stage a god-damned demonstration, didn't they? They knew how to put on a fuckin' protest. Light youself on fire! Come on, you moral crusaders, let's see a little smoke to match that fire in your belly.

"Hey, if they really want to get serious, what about all the sperm that are wasted when the state executes a condemned man, and one of these pro-life guys who's watching cums in his pants, huh? Here's a guy standing over there with his jockey shorts full of little Vinnies and Debbies, and nobody's saying a word to the guy. Not every ejaculation deserves a name.

Now, speaking of consistency, Catholics - which I was until I reached the age of reason -- Catholics and other Christians are against abortions, and they're against homosexuals. Well who has less abortions than homosexuals? Leave these fucking people alone, for Christ sakes! Here is an entire class of people guaranteed never to have an abortion, and the Catholics and Christians are just tossing them aside! You'd think they'd make natural allies. Go look for consistency in religion.

And speaking of my friends, the Catholics, when John Cardinal O'Connor of New York, and some of these other Cardinals and Bishops have experienced their first pregnancies and their first labor pains, and they've raised a couple of children on minimum wage, then I'll be glad to hear what they have to say about abortion. I'm sure it will be interesting and enlightening...

"But you know, the longer you listen to this abortion debate, the more you hear this phrase 'sanctity of life.'" You've heard that, 'sanctity of life.'" You believe in it? Personally, I think it's a bunch of shit. Well I mean, life is sacred? Who said so? God? Hey if you read history, you realize that God is one of the leading causes of death, has been for thousands of years. Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Christians, all taking turns killing each other because God told them it was a good idea. The sword of God, the blood of the lamb, vengeance is mine, millions of dead motherfuckers, all because they gave the wrong answer to the God question.

'You belive in God?'

'No.'

*BANG* Dead.

'You belive in God?'

'Yes.'

'You belive in my God?'

'No.'

*Bang* Dead.

'My God has a bigger dick than your God!' That's how it is, isn't it? Thousands of years, and all the best wars too, the bloodiest, most brutal wars fought all based on religious hatred, which is fine with me. Anytime a bunch of holy people want to kill each other, I'm a happy guy. But don't be giving me all this shit about the sanctity of life. I mean, even if there were such a thing, I don't think it's something you can blame on God. No, you know where the sanctity of life came from? We made it up! You know why? Cause we're alive! Self-interest. Living people have a strong interest in promoting the idea that somehow life is sacred. You don't see Abbott and Costello running around, talking about this shit, do you? We're not hearing a whole lot from Mussolini on the subject. What's the latest from JFK? Not a god damned thing, cause JFK, Mussolini, and Abbott and Costello are fucking dead. They're fucking dead, and dead people give less than a shit about the sanctity of life. Only living people care about it, so the whole thing grows out of a completely biased point of view. It's a self-serving, man-made bullshit story. It's one of these things we tell ourselves so we'll feel noble. Life is sacred, makes you feel noble.

Well let me ask you this, if everything that ever lived is dead, and everything alive is going to die, where does the sacred part come in? I'm having trouble with that. Because even with the stuff we preach about the sanctity of life, we don't practice it. Look at what we kill. Mosquitos and flies, because they're pests! Lions and tigers, because it's fun! Chickens and pigs, because we're hungry. Pheasants and quail, because it's fun, and we're hungry. And people! We kill people, because they're pests... and it's fun!

And you might have noticed something else, the sanctity of life doesn't seem to apply to cancer cells, does it? You never see a bumpersticker that says 'save the tumors' or 'I brake for advanced melanoma.' No, viruses, mold, mildew, maggots, fungus, weeds, e. coli bacteria, the crabs, nothing sacred about those things. So at best, the sanctity of life is kind of a selective thing. We get to choose which forms of life we feel are sacred, and we get to kill the rest. Pretty neat deal, huh? You know how we got it? We made the whole fucking thing up! Made it up, the same way we made up the death penalty. We made them both up, the sanctity of life and the death penalty. Aren't we versatile?

16 Re: sorrow and sadness on Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:08 pm

Guest


Guest
George Carlin: This guy was and is, a very funny,intelligent,and thoughtful guy. A favorite listen for me. But I would like to pick over a small bone here. When Carlin starts a routine "The conservatiives say...." , and then goes on to denounce dumb religious principles, he has misled. There are political and fiscal conservatives and liberals, we know. But there are two types of religious postures one can take when it comes to "god". Yer a believer or you are not. Yes, most conservatives are believers, but then so are most liberals! It is NOT a "conservative/liberal" issue.

17 Re: sorrow and sadness on Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:38 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
I think he probably wrote that in the 80's, and he was mostly addressing "Pro-life" conservatives.

18 Re: sorrow and sadness on Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:45 pm

Guest


Guest
runawayhorses wrote:I think he probably wrote that in the 80's, and he was mostly addressing "Pro-life" conservatives.
Always good ta see ya, T. I know, but a major source of liberalism in this country are Catholics and they (or at least their faith) are/is adamantly anti abortion. I would say they are just as strongly anti-abortion as the "religious right". But wouldn't calling Catholic progressives the "religious left" be a little silly? Just about every single person I know would call him/herself conservative and damn near everyone I know believes in god. But I only know 1 or 2 people,personally, who are strongly anti-abortion. I think those who are religious-right fanatics are no more numerous (or effective) than those who are fanatically leftist and pro-abortion rights. I claim to be VERY conservative and believe a woman's right to have an abortion is a conservative principle in the sense it's none of my damn business if she has one or not. It is a religious issue only to those who are religious. I suggest that most people could care less.

19 Re: sorrow and sadness on Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:57 pm

gypsy


Moderator
I am pro/con I think it is up to individual, if one is going to have an abortion,I would prefer legal ,than a quack who mutilate.s.
,I think on the other side, that baby who never had a say` makes my heart hurt..
in some instances abortion should be a choice,does that make sense?

20 Re: sorrow and sadness on Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:03 am

gypsy


Moderator
runawayhorses wrote:I think he probably wrote that in the 80's, and he was mostly addressing "Pro-life" conservatives.
funny ,I liked Carlin but he did shock me at times..I ask myself how can you do this?? I think it was just comedy,i don't believe he believed that way`

21 Re: sorrow and sadness on Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:42 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
meemoon wrote:Always good ta see ya, T. I know, but a major source of liberalism in this country are Catholics and they (or at least their faith) are/is adamantly anti abortion. I would say they are just as strongly anti-abortion as the "religious right". But wouldn't calling Catholic progressives the "religious left" be a little silly? Just about every single person I know would call him/herself conservative and damn near everyone I know believes in god. But I only know 1 or 2 people,personally, who are strongly anti-abortion. I think those who are religious-right fanatics are no more numerous (or effective) than those who are fanatically leftist and pro-abortion rights. I claim to be VERY conservative and believe a woman's right to have an abortion is a conservative principle in the sense it's none of my damn business if she has one or not. It is a religious issue only to those who are religious. I suggest that most people could care less.

Always good to see you too Moon, I always enjoy your posts and conversation.

Well, maybe you're interpreting Carlin as only addressing the conservatives in a somewhat general fashion in his bit, but I think his original point was more about anyone that is "Pro Life" was the focus of his subject matter, outside of the fact hes obviously trying to be funny.

Personally, I never railed against God, I'm always careful to never say that there isn't a God, only that the God of the Bible is non-existent. A distinction I think is clear to most, but their are always exceptions with people that insist you believe in God or you don't, that there is no middle ground. Abortions issues (Pro-life people) seem most of the time (but not all) religiously influenced and bias. There is no mistaking that.

It is so easy to pass judgment on others, while neglecting to consider all the facts, all the circumstances. Itís easy to be self-righteous, sanctimonious, and to ignore reality, especially in the name of some god or religious tenet. George speaks of ALL the people who support that kind of thinking, not just conservative or right-wing ideology, or Liberals. In all defense of Carlin, he did specifically make reference to "Pro life Conservatives" but I really don't think that was his point. His point from my understanding is, he was expressing his views that included anyone that is pro life. I think he uses being Catholic to demonstrate his coming to reason with Christianity and religion, and that he "reached the age of reason" obviously meaning he doesn't hold any particular religious value to his reasoning of life, or in this case "abortions" now.

People who never found themselves in situations like having an abortion, are posturing to turn back the clock to 1957 mentality, to a time when woman had to go to butchers to end an unwanted pregnancy. I think religious "Pro Life" crusaders would like nothing more, for their own selfish beliefs.

22 Re: sorrow and sadness on Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:51 pm

Guest


Guest
"People who never found themselves in situations like having an abortion, are posturing to turn back the clock to 1957 mentality, to a time when woman had to go to butchers to end an unwanted pregnancy. I think religious "Pro Life" crusaders would like nothing more, for their own selfish beliefs." /// You betcha and that means at least 49% of our population will NEVER be faced with the question "Should I have an abortion?". It is a female issue and their decision. It would be too sensible to allow only women to vote on this,wouldn't it?

23 Re: sorrow and sadness on Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:09 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
gypsy wrote:funny ,I liked Carlin but he did shock me at times..I ask myself how can you do this?? I think it was just comedy,i don't believe he believed that way`
Gypsy, I think Carlin believes everything her says, with a touch or humor and exaggeration mixed in. If he "shocked you" its probably becuase he tells it like it is, and most thinking human beings can recognize the truth and logic in what he says, people are only "shocked" when someone has the balls to tell it like it is. You were shocked becuase it rang a element of truth to you, something you don't expect from a comedian. That's part of Carlin's charm I think.

24 Re: sorrow and sadness on Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:18 pm

gypsy


Moderator
runawayhorses wrote:
gypsy wrote:funny ,I liked Carlin but he did shock me at times..I ask myself how can you do this?? I think it was just comedy,i don't believe he believed that way`
Gypsy, I think Carlin believes everything her says, with a touch or humor and exaggeration mixed in. If he "shocked you" its probably becuase he tells it like it is, and most thinking human beings can recognize the truth and logic in what he says, people are only "shocked" when someone has the balls to tell it like it is. You were shocked becuase it rang a element of truth to you, something you don't expect from a comedian. That's part of Carlin's charm I think.

I don't know about the ring of truth,that isn't what shocked me, because I don't really believe what he said,I mostly took it with a grain of salt,sometime he was funny other times he wasn't ,the things he put about God I didn't approve, of course, but i can't say he was telling the truth,and no one but Carlin knows that, or what he really believed, i think he did it to shock people

25 Re: sorrow and sadness on Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:21 pm

runawayhorses


Owner
meemoon wrote:. It would be too sensible to allow only women to vote on this,wouldn't it?
Bravo Moon, agreed, yes it would.

26 Re: sorrow and sadness Today at 9:14 am

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