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1 Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:52 pm

SSC


Admin
Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps
By HELEN THOMAS
HEARST NEWSPAPERS

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama is already back-tracking on some of his high-road campaign stands and is copying some of former President George Bush's dubious policies.

A couple of weeks ago the Obama administration invoked the controversial state secrets act in the case of Binyam Mohamed, an Ethiopian native, and four other detainees. They claimed they were victims of the Bush administration's rendition program under which terrorism suspects were secretly taken to other countries where, they say, they were tortured.

The Bush administration's position has been that the case should be dismissed because even courtroom discussion of their treatment could threaten national security.

When the case was heard earlier this month before a panel of Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals judges sitting in San Francisco, the Obama administration made the same argument.

One judge asked the Justice Department lawyer if the change in administrations had any bearing on the case.

"No, your honor," came the reply.

According to The New York Times, "even the judges on the panel seemed surprised by the administration's decision to go forward" with the same argument.

That's not "change," the theme of the Obama presidential election campaign. It's more of the same.

Former President Bush's legal advisers went out of their way to cleanse new laws of any penalties for White House officials and CIA agents to be tried for abuses of power. A "heavy" among them was newly departed Attorney General Michael Mukasey, the same official who said he couldn't decide whether the use of waterboarding during interrogation was torture.

And he was a former federal judge!

Another instance of Obama in lock step with his predecessor was the new president's executive order perpetuating Bush's "faith-based office in the White House," but failing to provide safeguards against the blurring of separation of church and state.

During his campaign, Obama agreed to uphold the Bush administration program of granting federal aid and contracts to churches, temples and mosques for charitable work but promised to bar religious discrimination in hiring. There was no such prohibition in his directive.

Obama also has backed Bush's last-minute move to allow concealed firearms in national parks. He did so even while a review is underway to see if the firearms measure meets environmental restrictions.

Obama has been true to some of his big pledges by issuing orders to shut down the controversial prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and the shameful CIA's secret prisons abroad -- prisons known for cruel and inhuman abuses of prisoners.

Whether out of charity toward his predecessor or a protective spirit for the reputation of the country, Obama has ruled out a "truth commission" that would re-examine the policies and practices of his predecessor. Instead, the new president insists that we have to "move forward" without assigning blame to those who dishonored us.

So much for the much touted Obama campaign slogan of "change." And to think that he once taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School and was head of the Harvard Law Review.

Meantime, two Senate Democrats -- Richard Durbin of Illinois and Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island-- are urging the Justice Department to release its findings of an ethics investigation into legal opinions of the Bush administration that paved the way for waterboarding and other harsh questioning of prisoners captured during the "war on terror."

The Bush advisers then serving in the Justice Department Office of Legal Counsel --John C. Yoo and Jay S. Bybee-- wrote memos that narrowed the definition of torture. A separate Yoo memo suggested that those acting under the president's authority as commander in chief would be immune from prosecution for torture.

Unless Obama acts to clear our name we may forever be identified with the horrors of the American Gulag in our treatment of prisoners.

www.seattlepi.nwsource.com

2 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:42 am

Guest


Guest
Surprise,surprise,surprise. Yeah,right. I post a lot on Wis.dm.com, a site full of libs, and it's hiarious reading the twisting and turning the child-like messiah believers are resorting to to rationalize Obama's choices and policies. It basically boils down to "Bush do bad, Obama do good, no matter what". I just can't WAIT til 2010 and what the numbers look like then. We'll see how the "Bush did it!" mantra plays.

3 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:00 am

SSC


Admin
It does seem alot of Bush is popping up , Obama to me is moving to fast, his snap decisions are biting him in the ass on his choices for some positions. This will surely come back to haunt him in times to come. Not sure I like my future in someones hands that doesn't stop to smell the roses, they just cut them and stick them in a pot .

4 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:42 am

Guest


Guest
It's possible, just possible, that Obama is doing what Bush did when he invaded Iraq. My belief is that Bush felt he needed to jump and jump hard and quick-like. If so, then I'll be willing to credit the guy. If he is willing to make moves that are likely to be of questionable efficacy in order to do something in the absence of a politically acceptible alternative approach (do nothing and let the chips fall where they may), then he has paid a price already. I wish I was smart enough to know clearly what could have been done about 9/11 or the present economic crises. And just like Iraq, we're in this "stimulus plan" up to our necks.

5 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:50 pm

SSC


Admin
It is not just up to our necks, every day that goes by a new bailout is put into place with a huge price tag (not counting interest ) This country will be in debt for 50 years at this rate, and the logic of some rescue money still baffles me .
I do feel Obama did the right thing sending more troops to Afghanistan, we can't just let the Taliban do a sweeping take over, but 17,000 is a drop in the bucket of the man power that will be needed, but at least Obama isn't scared to flex his muscles, hopefully the US will never tolerate a wimpy President.

6 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:09 pm

gypsy


Moderator
I like this part of SSC' copied article,

Whether out of charity toward his predecessor or a protective spirit for the reputation of the country, Obama has ruled out a "truth commission" that would re-examine the policies and practices of his predecessor. Instead, the new president insists that we have to "move forward" without assigning blame to those who dishonored us.

Obama has so much to correct/deal with , move forward!! I agree,what good would it do do, unless those people responsible could be prosecuted,I think the changing laws/rules around protected those involved in this degrading part of war..

7 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:19 pm

rosco 357


Veteran
SSC wrote:It is not just up to our necks, every day that goes by a new bailout is put into place with a huge price tag (not counting interest ) This country will be in debt for 50 years at this rate, and the logic of some rescue money still baffles me .
I do feel Obama did the right thing sending more troops to Afghanistan, we can't just let the Taliban do a sweeping take over, but 17,000 is a drop in the bucket of the man power that will be needed, but at least Obama isn't scared to flex his muscles, hopefully the US will never tolerate a wimpy President.

i posted somewhere the military leaders want 30 ,000 more troops to afghanistan, i imagine they will get what they ask, as Obama in the primaries , said he was in favor of more troops to afghanistan, i have always said, probably too much,,,lol once he is briefed he will have to change his mind on national security issues which terrorism is at the top of the list, and unless it falls back, Iraq seems to be doing fairly well. we will always have some presents in iraq, oil effects our economy so much, but that is a given we will not leave it unprotected or trust the Iraqis to protect it.. the one thing Obama or his ppl have done poorly is choose ppl for cabinet positions,take care, mid term elections in what less than 2 years, will be huge, it could or could not change the whole scenario,

8 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:02 pm

SSC


Admin
gypsy wrote:I like this part of SSC' copied article,

Whether out of charity toward his predecessor or a protective spirit for the reputation of the country, Obama has ruled out a "truth commission" that would re-examine the policies and practices of his predecessor. Instead, the new president insists that we have to "move forward" without assigning blame to those who dishonored us.

Obama has so much to correct/deal with , move forward!! I agree,what good would it do do, unless those people responsible could be prosecuted,I think the changing laws/rules around protected those involved in this degrading part of war..

Obama has less than 30 days in office, I wonder what will be said of him in 3 years. Lets hope it is good, I have my doubts but time will tell.

9 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:12 pm

SSC


Admin
Whether out of charity toward his predecessor or a protective spirit for the reputation of the country, Obama has ruled out a "truth commission" that would re-examine the policies and practices of his predecessor. Instead, the new president insists that we have to "move forward" without assigning blame to those who dishonored us
..............................................................................................................................................................
I do not feel in the least bit Bush dishonored us , he dealt with what he was given, a horrendous attack upon the United States, each person who is allowed the privilege to live in this country should be grateful to Pres. Bush for a safe homeland, the flip side is examples like Afghanistan, if you aren't happy here go live there.

10 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:31 pm

Guest


Guest
SSC wrote:
gypsy wrote:I like this part of SSC' copied article,

Whether out of charity toward his predecessor or a protective spirit for the reputation of the country, Obama has ruled out a "truth commission" that would re-examine the policies and practices of his predecessor. Instead, the new president insists that we have to "move forward" without assigning blame to those who dishonored us.

Obama has so much to correct/deal with , move forward!! I agree,what good would it do do, unless those people responsible could be prosecuted,I think the changing laws/rules around protected those involved in this degrading part of war..

Obama has less than 30 days in office, I wonder what will be said of him in 3 years. Lets hope it is good, I have my doubts but time will tell.
Fortunately for us,SSC, we are reasonably sane and will be able to judge Obama based on facts. DO NOT expect any of the messiah-believers to do the same. They are stil mutteringl,and will continue to mutter, bush....bush....bush....

11 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:13 am

SSC


Admin
AMEN...Moon..I hear the same little fuddled voice weakly mumbling bush..bush..bush..

12 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:24 am

rosco 357


Veteran
i voted for mccain, but was not really excited about it, but i did not see another one i liked any better .. but that's over actually none of the republicans jumped out at me,im actually in the center, but in no way do i blame bush, for any thing he did trying to defend our nation, i will go to my grave believing he did go into iraq,believing intel, that other countries believed, and a vote in congress, that saddam had wmd,heck i thought he did, as inspectors came in the front gates, trucks went out the back , what are we to believe, maybe he did and got it to syria, but anyways, saddam was stupid at the end, if he had only let the inspectors stay, i imagine if he had known we would go in he would have let the inspectors stay, i think the economy is both partys fault, the dems like barney franks crowd wanting loans for ppl with nothing to support the loan. maybe bush was so absorbed, with national things he missed this, i posted our senator Shelby along with others and mccain, posted that letter about the banks, we go through hard economy's from time to time, we gave out rebates, i don't like going into debt, but i wonder if we did nothing how bad it would be, i don't know and don't think anyone does, but i do not blame bush, or obama,he thinks he is on the correct path, i hope he is, i would be crazy to hope he fails,i hope it works marvelous, im not smart enough to judge this thing yet, all the parts are not even in place. but one thing , i bet money, obama says lay off bush, we don't need distractions, in these dark days for some ppl,,,as i said many time my work is in the stimulus i just hope it is distributed in time to help, we have closed plants, and layed off ppl so far in other states, only because our plant is kicking ass on profits, and production, well we shall see, i have lots of work for march, this is the time of year the railroads go to work on maintenance on the tracks, fingers crossed, as i ramble into the night, lol, take care

13 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:34 am

gypsy


Moderator
SSC wrote:It is not just up to our necks, every day that goes by a new bailout is put into place with a huge price tag (not counting interest ) This country will be in debt for 50 years at this rate, and the logic of some rescue money still baffles me .
I do feel Obama did the right thing sending more troops to Afghanistan, we can't just let the Taliban do a sweeping take over, but 17,000 is a drop in the bucket of the man power that will be needed, but at least Obama isn't scared to flex his muscles, hopefully the US will never tolerate a wimpy President.
yes I agree on(wimpy) he has not been so far I will say this I admire him,,who in hell would want his job, in this mess~ Go Obama!!

14 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:48 am

SSC


Admin
I figured with your anti war opinions you would be shocked Obama is sending more troops. You were so against Bush doing that , but I guess your boy makes it all better...lmao

15 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:53 am

gypsy


Moderator
SSC wrote:
gypsy wrote:I like this part of SSC' copied article,

Whether out of charity toward his predecessor or a protective spirit for the reputation of the country, Obama has ruled out a "truth commission" that would re-examine the policies and practices of his predecessor. Instead, the new president insists that we have to "move forward" without assigning blame to those who dishonored us.

Obama has so much to correct/deal with , move forward!! I agree,what good would it do do, unless those people responsible could be prosecuted,I think the changing laws/rules around protected those involved in this degrading part of war..

Obama has less than 30 days in office, I wonder what will be said of him in 3 years. Lets hope it is good, I have my doubts but time will tell.




I guess time will tell,,
it has already started with past predecessor >>>history

16 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:09 am

gypsy


Moderator
SSC wrote:I figured with your anti war opinions you would be shocked Obama is sending more troops. You were so against Bush doing that , but I guess your boy makes it all better...lmao

nope not anti war at all with cause, but would prefer not, since the (idiot) before ,got us in this mess,Oh yes ((Stay the course) Bah Humbug!! now we have to win since (he) didn't!! or at least make a diplomatic try~ I think we can! NOW!! lol!

17 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:16 am

SSC


Admin
How naive you are looking thru your rose colored glasses

18 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:25 am

gypsy


Moderator
SSC wrote:How naive you are looking thru your rose colored glasses

yes my quote from another time !!
rose colored glasses you were looking through@00

now the fiasco is clear,, the time for healing,I hope,,the past is over,,I pray~~

2001/2009

19 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:35 am

SSC


Admin
What ever Gypsy, you will bash Bush till you turn green so have at it....We'll see in the long run how the out come will be . Right now the stock market has zero faith in anything going on.

20 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:42 am

gypsy


Moderator
I hope I am alive!! to see his shame in history books~ he was/is a fiasco
sorry /but that is the thought of lots of Americans,.

21 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:49 am

SSC


Admin
Of course you will be the loudest voice , how could I expect anything any different from you. Well have at it post all your anti-Bush trash all you want I am going to bed.Bang away at your keyboard allllllllllllll alone.

22 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:56 am

gypsy


Moderator
SSC wrote:How naive you are looking thru your rose colored glasses

well sweetie, rose colored glasses? no this is after math~~ a crucial time/a failure take those dam glasses off,,....throw them away,, Hope America never looks through them again~ you have worn them to long~~

23 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:12 am

gypsy


Moderator
SSC wrote:What ever Gypsy, you will bash Bush till you turn green so have at it....We'll see in the long run how the out come will be . Right now the stock market has zero faith in anything going on.



nope not bash the well known facts!!

24 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:34 am

SSC


Admin
I am not the one with the rose colored glasses you are, and they are boggling your vision, but carry on in you blind ignorance, you'll find a wall to bounce off sooner or later.

25 Re: Obama follows some of Bush's footsteps on Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:06 pm

gypsy


Moderator
really??,after eight long years your still wearing them..I did discard mine long ago~ Things look lots clearer also~

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