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SSC


Admin
Arkansas Pastors Divided Over Packing Heat in Church
Saturday , February 14, 2009
www.foxnews.com
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. —

Arkansas pastors may soon have to worry about more than their flocks' spiritual battles. After a number of shootings in churches nationwide, should congregants be allowed to bring concealed weapons into their sanctuaries?

Under current Arkansas law, holders of concealed weapons permits can take their guns anywhere they want except bars and houses of worship. A bill in the state Senate would let churches decide for themselves whether weapons should be allowed.

"I believe it would disturb the sanctity and tranquility of church" said Pastor John Phillips, a bill opponent who was shot twice in the back as he finished a service 23 years ago. If a church opts out, "Do you want ushers to stop you at the door and frisk you?"

The bill's supporters say the issue isn't gun rights but a constitutionally protected right for churches to set their own rules. Opponents say worshippers should be allowed to pray without worrying whether the person next to them is armed.

Nathan Petty, a pastor at Beech Grove Baptist Church in Fordyce, has presented to legislators a petition from 40 preachers who support the bill.

"It's not about gun rights, it's about church rights," Petty said. "Is it right for the state to make that decision for the church?"

Phillips said there could have been carnage at his Ward Chapel Church in Little Rock if someone else had been armed when he was attacked by a parishioner's relative for a still-unknown reason.

"People are not going to react the way they think they're going to react in the heat of the moment. It was utter chaos when I was shot," said Phillips, who still carries one of the bullets in his body.

The bill, by Republican Rep. Beverly Pyle, passed the House on Wednesday and is pending before a Senate committee.

Grant Exton, the executive director of the Arkansas Concealed Carry Association, said allowing concealed weapons would not make churches more likely to have volatile situations — but adds that that is not his point.

"It's a problem of (the government) telling churches what to do in an area of moral issue, where that should be none of their business," Exton said. Of 48 states that allow concealed carry, 42 let churches make the decision, Exton said.

"We have the government in an area that it shouldn't be," he said.

If the current law is not changed, it is subject to a challenge on constitutional grounds, said John DiPippa, the interim dean at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock School of Law.

A law prohibiting guns from places of worship is similar to a law requiring that churches permit guns, because the government is forcing a decision on a religious institution based on moral grounds, he said. "On the religious argument, you could make the same claim in both directions."

Religious leaders have a responsibility to protect their congregations both spiritually and physically, said Mark DeYmaz, a pastor at Mosaic Church in Little Rock. He opposes allowing guns in churches but said each religious establishment must decide for itself.

"A good shepherd would not allow a wolf near his flock," said DeYmaz, whose church is located in one of the city's tougher areas.

After a man in Colorado went on a shooting spree at two religious facilities in 2007, DeYmaz' community established "the Mosaic Watchmen," a group of ushers trained in security measures but designed to uphold the church's image as a sacred place — not an armed church.

"We're there to be a light in the community, and we don't like the image that would give us," DeYmaz said.

gypsy


Moderator
This is the down side of bad economy and all, is the varmints move in..I say we have to protect ourselves..
crime escalated here also;;which causes people to react..let me tell you,if some one breaks into my home, to me that is a reason to shoot ask later.. some know my ability (assumed)with a 410 lol

during our ice storm Generators were stolen,one incident::> a lawn mower was started to simulate,the sound of the generator~ evil abounds in these dire situations..

SSC


Admin
That has happened in every storm for years, maybe you just never heard of it. Lawn mowers have long been used to cover up generator thefts, hopefully the residents were aware when the lights went out there was a problem.
I have and carry a 44mag ( with a permit and deputy commission ) . More since Katrina with the influx of coloreds and Mexicans you need extra protection, I have motion detector lights on all sides of my house and alarms on all doors and windows, plus all our trucks have alarms on them as do the boats.

gypsy


Moderator
I probably never realized it as most don't,until it happens in your area~ it will get worse, if our laws don't crack down.. our rural area use to be safe, slept 20 years without locking doors,that is not wise now~~

SSC


Admin
It is more than laws, it is public envolvement and awarness to your surroundings. With he economy down more illegals are committing crimes since their honey-hole has dried up.

gypsy


Moderator
SSC it is not just illegals ~~it is people disparate~~

SSC


Admin
Sure it is desperate people, they are everywhere, but the illegals have nothing to fall back on, they had worked tax free, sent the money across the border to their families and now times have changed, so they resort to stealing everything that isn't nailed down, many supporting drug habits they have acquired along the way.

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy wrote:I probably never realized it as most don't,until it happens in your area~ it will get worse, if our laws don't crack down.. our rural area use to be safe, slept 20 years without locking doors,that is not wise now~~

i dont think cracking down on laws changes a thing , its sign of the times, here i tell u from my mothers neighborhood going black, i hate to say it but when it went black about the time she died, every one had bars on the windows and doors, it was black crime, plain and simple, like was said when i was a kid there, we did not lock the doors, lots of it is drugs, and ppl needing money for drugs,

gypsy


Moderator
I think that is BS

education is the key, STOP! the people who don't need 'government help.. that has been going on longer than illegals~

SSC


Admin
Gypsy you are wrong, just like Rosco said in New Orleans neighborhoods that were once white are totally black and hispanic, with bars on every window and door. I am alot closer to the access route of illegals than you are, and we are ate up with them, bunch of damn animals, speaking spanish as you walk by. Education is great but it should have started generations ago, these taco bending wetbacks know one thing ...take-take-take and that goes for our african american brothers too, all they know is dope and killing.

gypsy


Moderator
then as you tell me illegals,now it is Blacks,is that prejudice?

SSC


Admin
Am I prejudice is that what you are asking ?? You bet your sweet ass I am and have every right to be . Remeber this is America we still have the right to free speech, at least for now.

gypsy


Moderator
then i have nothing else to say, my neighbor is black,I went to his funeral, three months ago, a black church.. no prejudice at all~

SSC


Admin
maybe that is who was stealing generators ????? each to his own

gypsy


Moderator
Ni SSC
he was a upstanding person, he worked for the soil conservation

we haven't problems with blacks for 40 years.since we moved here.. I guess area makes a difference, and white prejudice, there is a bridge,if one wants to cross~ just like Appalachian

SSC


Admin
When the crooks are caught it might be a surprise, you are lucky if you have no low life scum invading your area, but never think you are not vulnerable as you stated the days of leaving the doors unlocked is past. Always after a storm the vultures decend upon an area, driving past your house , checking the activity there , down to watching your trash for boxes from new tv's or appliances.

gypsy


Moderator
We have to cross that Bridge SSC,

I have witnessed helping the worse scenario, and winning~ but first we have to lose the prejudice,or I am better than you thought.we win then ..

SSC


Admin
Alright Gypsy if you are your brothers equal then you are the same as the crack dealers, or child molesters , or murderers, I consider myself much above that class of vile scum as I do border jumping wetbacks or ghetto blacks looking for their next victim or drug buy. In the world today a person who is prejudice usually has good reason. I don't see these type of people trying to better themselves, they just take from the innocent and leave lives in a shambles.

rosco 357


Veteran
SSC wrote:When the crooks are caught it might be a surprise, you are lucky if you have no low life scum invading your area, but never think you are not vulnerable as you stated the days of leaving the doors unlocked is past. Always after a storm the vultures decend upon an area, driving past your house , checking the activity there , down to watching your trash for boxes from new tv's or appliances.

gee i remember like 20 years ago or more,, ppl saying do not leave a tv box etc, or any type box like that intact open for view for the garbage man, always cut it up,what gypsy said about helping . if the whole neighbor hood is filled with these type ppl,as i have worked in areas in the city like this, well that's why they have white flight, and gated neighborhoods in nice areas, , my dad for 25 years, till he changed jobs about 10 years before he had cancer, he went door to door, picking up and taking back dry cleaning,as my uncle had dry cleaners, and my dad on some days on his route would have 500 bucks on him , this was 45 years ago it ended,, and most of this was in totally black neighborhoods, as for some reason they had more dry cleaning than white folks, he never in 25 years was robbed, he never had a gun , he had a axe handle for dogs, at some houses but never used it.on some days i even as a small child went to work with him if my mom had things to do,, i doubt today he would make one day with out being robbed, dope plays a huge part now, at the lake i never lock my doors or even take my keys out of the truck i leave the keys in all nite,. its a totally different world there, is it because there are only white county ppl there, i don't know, im just stating how things are , ppl have to draw there own conclusions, so far its not bad where i live but i do leave on a loud boom box on the hearth so if someone comes to the door maybe they will think someone is home,and i have home alarm stickers on my storm doors as my mom worked at a place that did this and i got some stickers, im not saying its all blacks, as there are white thugs that break into houses, but i know the main reason is drugs, and the money needed for them, i do think many ppl are beyond help. gypsy i know u mean well and i understand, but when it gets so bad i think ur rose colored glasses will not work.i doubt law enforcement in a neighbor hood house break in that one in 10 are ever caught,, take care

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy wrote:then i have nothing else to say, my neighbor is black,I went to his funeral, three months ago, a black church.. no prejudice at all~
oh come on tell the truth u used that 410 on him as he drug ur generator off, lmao

gypsy


Moderator
haha wasn't my generator, it was some one from Ballard county, that story was told at the courthouse..

gypsy


Moderator
SSC wrote:Alright Gypsy if you are your brothers equal then you are the same as the crack dealers, or child molesters , or murderers, I consider myself much above that class of vile scum as I do border jumping wetbacks or ghetto blacks looking for their next victim or drug buy. In the world today a person who is prejudice usually has good reason. I don't see these type of people trying to better themselves, they just take from the innocent and leave lives in a shambles.

you completely went away from my meaning,and twisted it.. with this post,above.. In Gods eyes we are all equal was my meaning,who are we to Judge? I was referring to helping,others without prejudice

SSC


Admin
Nope didn't twist anything, you are just crawfishing out again. You can be anyway you want to be , but if being equal to someone , then that is not class specific you must be equal to all. I prefer to be racial and very prejudice , that way I am not seeing good in the crack dealers and the carjackers or the mexicans sleeping in abandoned houses robbing neighborhoods blind. But you go ahead and turn a blind eye to the situation...we'll see how that works for you.

gypsy


Moderator
Look SSC I didn't say I saw good in any of the subjects you mentioned, and no I am not prejudiced, my life style is better of course, than the people you mentioned, and i would try to help them if they tried to help themselves,we are our brothers keeper~ I believe that.. I try not to judge anyone,we don't know what these people have gone through or what made them what they are~ I am just saying i am not prejudice and don't look down on people..

SSC


Admin
What ever floats your boat.

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