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SSC


Admin
Computers are great in many ways. Recently I was in a 6th grade social studies class, the task was to look up in an encyclopedia some information on the country of Paraguay. The questions from the kids were sad, starting with ..how do you spell that...what continent is it in.., The comments were worse..I can't do this without google, I need spell check. As technology advances I know so do learning atmospheres but a crash course in back to basics is a good lesson.
Another example is telling time, many children have no clue how to tell time on a face clock. My daughter had one day years ago to learn on a paper plate made to look like a clock, as all the clocks in the school were digital, the kids had no clue what so ever in counting minutes etc.

rosco 357


Veteran
wow, did i miss something good while at work today, it was colder today, i guess because the sun did not come out, i was reading here but fell asleep,, but now all of y'all are gone, lol,, kids do need to learn all the ways of doing things without computers, but need computers also,, for one reason, places run more economical with computers, like less paper work and filing,etc. but as for me, a machine that is not a manual machine can cut circles around one that is manual, using a separate computer using different software, u can make a program then loaded into a computer operated machine cut any shape or just a simple cut or drilling holes,. the computer machines fly,they have a whole lots of different cutters and drills etc, the machine goes and clamps up the tool it needs, then goes to the place it need to start, and cuts, then may change out cutters, all by itself, its the future, but there are still a need for manual machines, as computer ran machines either need a fair number of parts to run to make it worth ur while to program, or either cut a shape, that would be impossible any other way, i have said this before, i took introduction to computers in college, they were so huge, and ran on the key punch card, remember those, like getting ur utility bill with rectangle, holes in it, that is what computers were when i took the course, when i really feel old is like at work talk about something and the young ones dont have a clue to what i am talking about, welll i'm rambling, take care, just read what all i missed today,,, take care

rosco 357


Veteran
SSC wrote:Computers are great in many ways. Recently I was in a 6th grade social studies class, the task was to look up in an encyclopedia some information on the country of Paraguay. The questions from the kids were sad, starting with ..how do you spell that...what continent is it in.., The comments were worse..I can't do this without google, I need spell check. As technology advances I know so do learning atmospheres but a crash course in back to basics is a good lesson.
Another example is telling time, many children have no clue how to tell time on a face clock. My daughter had one day years ago to learn on a paper plate made to look like a clock, as all the clocks in the school were digital, the kids had no clue what so ever in counting minutes etc.

well ssc that was probably me asking how to spell Paraguay. and yes i pasted it off ur post, lmao,, lol , i know im the spelling joke, i have now just started using spell check some, the funny thing is , i had a tough mother on school, i remember coming home on spelling test days. my mom would be sitting on the front steps and first thing she would ask was how did i do on the spelling test. i had to make 95 or 100 or my butt had a problem.. most of my spelling is just being lazy. as is my typing as i know i just do not use periods much, i do type pretty fast, i took one year of typing in HS, and glad i did , well let me go see if i have a movie to watch, see y'all Sunday,

runawayhorses


Owner
SSC wrote:Computers are great in many ways. Recently I was in a 6th grade social studies class, the task was to look up in an encyclopedia some information on the country of Paraguay. The questions from the kids were sad, starting with ..how do you spell that...what continent is it in.., The comments were worse..I can't do this without google, I need spell check. As technology advances I know so do learning atmospheres but a crash course in back to basics is a good lesson.
Another example is telling time, many children have no clue how to tell time on a face clock. My daughter had one day years ago to learn on a paper plate made to look like a clock, as all the clocks in the school were digital, the kids had no clue what so ever in counting minutes etc.
Yes agreed, its pretty sad not knowing those basic things and becoming so dependent on computers, so I certainly understand where you're coming from. Lets just hope we can improve the education of our kids in whatever capacity serves them best.

The clock story kills me!! lmao I had no idea some kids couldn't read face clock.. lol!

SSC


Admin
I do hope Obama has the common sence to push the back to basics in the public school system.

56 Just some quick notes: on Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:42 pm

Guest


Guest
Tyler,my man, I was referring to Laura vis a vis the "divorcee" thing. 2. While your description of Google's function is exactly correct,I still say there is value in comparing new information with an established data base. 3."Dumbassetry" was purely my invention made up at this here keebored. Should I submit to the Websters' Committee? I can't agree that the on-line definitions are "far superior" to the book version. I keep in mind the observation that many of the new word usages are coined by people who say the word "like" every third word. Like, do you, like, think that I am,like, no longer a divorcee? What,like, should we call,like, a divorced man? Like, hmmmmm? (I am fully aware you are not guilty of these stupidities) 4.Bush will not be prosecuted for "war crimes" because he didn't commit any. I just now heard Nancy Pelosi say to Chris Wallace that Bush tried to eliminate the Social Security system, an outright lie by an outright liar. This by the Speaker of the House, 3d in line to the presidency.There is a difference between expressing an opinion and purveying lies.

57 Computers on Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:34 pm

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Guest
"The problem I have with that theory is, I can't find any disadvantages about taking the easy way out using computers, I only see advantages....." /// I don't. I don't see any advantages in our young people being only semi-literate,unable to do simple math,and not having any on hand knowledge of American history or basics civics. Theory? Just ask any teen when the civil war took place. Who is their Governor. Just ask one what is the tax on a dollar purchase if the tax rate is 6%? Will they answer "six cents", or will they reach for a calculator? Ask one who Harry Reid is. The easiest way out is just to cheat in order to have the right answer. The hard way is to actually learn and KNOW the answers. I prefer the hard way.

runawayhorses


Owner
Mooooooooon my Man..... So you're saying the reason the kids don't know about the same things that you think are important and useful, things like "hand knowledge of American history or basics civics" unable to do simple math" is becuase of computers, and that makes the kids out to be semi-literate and poor math students. You think computers are depriving them of that knowledge. Well, perhaps the things that are important to you are not necessarily important to younger kids. Maybe they simply don't need to know those things to be successful in today's world. So with that, I think its quite possible a problem doesn't really exist. They can run a business, pay their bills, and a million other things without knowing what you know. Point being, computers are not responsible for the kids not knowing about "hand knowledge of American history or basics civics", its becuase the things they NEED to know can be found out on a computer.

That's my "theory" and I'm sticking to it..

runawayhorses


Owner
meemoon wrote:3."Dumbassetry" was purely my invention made up at this here keebored. Should I submit to the Websters' Committee?
No I don't think so, I'm sure they take as much consideration updating their website as they do their books. The new/young language is all part of growing up, we all had our own language as kids, we grew out of some of it, some has made the dictionaries by now, can ya dig it Man? I knew that ya could..

Guest


Guest
"...they can do a million things without knowing what you know..." // No they can't and they don't. I won't beat this to death though. Youse is a "believer" and I am an atheist. This 'puter generation has already put us in a serious bind because they are too stupid to buy fuel efficient cars, sign managable mortgages, save any money at all, and avoid extreme credit card debt. They can't even handle their own paychecks. The only million things they can do is find a million ways to do dumb things,But I will leave you to your screen and I will happily continue to read my books.All the credible educators agree with me but what do they know, right?

61 PS: on Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:05 am

Guest


Guest
Let me clarify my statement that "all credible educators agree with me...". The educators I have seen or read who speak about this all agree that this country is headed for economic disaster (already?) if our young people aren't brought up to world scholastic standards. We have become a 2nd rate nation but because of our large population,we still have some remaining bright spots.But for how long? Youths today shy away from the sciences and engineering. We may have already been eclipsed. That new LHC in Switzerland should have been built here.Meanwhile, our younguns are wandering around with a celphone texting and posting dirty pictures of their genitalia to each other. No,they don't need to understand history or civics/government since they have NO interest in how things work and they've got plenty of adults telling them they are weonderful because they are computer literate and are WISE beyond their years. They are not. They are as ignorant as a pile of lugwrenches and believe that GW is a murderer and the Vatican has been taken over by space aliens. I mean,like,didn't they read that,like, on Myspace?

runawayhorses


Owner
meemoon wrote:"...they can do a million things without knowing what you know..." // No they can't and they don't. I won't beat this to death though. Youse is a "believer" and I am an atheist. This 'puter generation has already put us in a serious bind because they are too stupid to buy fuel efficient cars, sign managable mortgages, save any money at all, and avoid extreme credit card debt. They can't even handle their own paychecks. The only million things they can do is find a million ways to do dumb things,But I will leave you to your screen and I will happily continue to read my books.All the credible educators agree with me but what do they know, right?
Yes, I'm a believer in the computer generation, I think computers are fantastic. I also think its worth mentioning that much (if not all) of everything we do now from the machinery we use to run our factories, to the way we dial a phone, relies on computer technology, the security and well being of our nation depends on them. Without computers, we would be helpless and vulnerable, and without the younger generation to learn the computers, and withput their fresh ideas on how to do things, we would really be in deep shit.

This 'puter generation has already put us in a serious bind because they are too stupid to buy fuel efficient cars, sign managable mortgages, save any money at all, and avoid extreme credit card debt. They can't even handle their own paychecks.
Everything you just mentioned that you blame the computer generation on, happens in your generation as well. Computers didn't cause those problem, that's been going on now way before the age of computers.

Here's an idea, Instead of accusing the younger generation of being "stupid", look at who got us in this mess in the first place, look at who is still in debt, who still has mortgages to pay off, and who still drives a gas guzzling 1979 Lincoln Continental... it is their parents, the same ones with the books, which consequently is from your generation. The "Computer" generation is what is going to fix what your generation has fucked up. We need computer technology to pilot our planes and our rockets into space. It is that kind of technology that will save us and protect us as a nation. So really, you can squirm and act irritated all you want, and thumb your nose up at computers and the younger generation, it won't change a thing, and I certainly hope not, becuase I wouldn't want that to dampen their optimism for the future. Its computers and the kids that run them that are gonna save your ass and this country.

The kids are on a great journey with a very bright and interesting future I believe. But hey, don't let me rain on your pity fest, if you want to believe computers are the the cause of all our problems, and you want to believe kids today should learn all the things you know from books, just like you did, then you go right ahead.

gypsy


Moderator
I agree Tyler..


my/meemoons generation is what got us into this mess~,, my kids are smarter than me ,my grand kids are smarter than their parents..and so on.
young people amaze me and give me hope and inspiration...




I think this proves itself every day.. ..

rosco 357


Veteran
oh heck my kids will never be smarter than me, lol, but my point, and i will take a different road than schools and such. without computers, and the technology, that goes hand in hand with them. well as i read that is the main way we won the cold war. we out tech ed the ussr, they could not keep up tech wise, and went broke, trying, many nations now are closing in tech wise, this worries me, so we never need to stop any form of technology be it a more powerful computer to a new and better puter guided weapon systems, thank goodness we have ppl smart enough to build these great machines, and i pray we stay one step ahead on technology, we have enough ppl that cover different parts of learning, historians and scholars,,we even have enough global warming ppl... there is room for ppl that depend on computers and ppl that make them more powerful as to advance our cause of security, its in every thing we do, and it makes life easier. and for us safer, but we must never let our technology guard down. as Satchel Page said, " dont look back something may be gaining on u" but i never ment to be saying kids dont need all the basics, but computers if used correct can enhance learning. take care,

65 Two peas in a pod? Naaaa. on Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:30 am

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Guest
"don't let me rain on your pity fest, if you want to believe........" /// You needn't worry about me. I don't pity myself. My house is paid for and I have excellent credit,unlike this generation. If you religiously believe circuitry trumps brains, you, and this nation, will deserve your fate. Unfortunately, the succeeding generations don't get "smarter"; that kind of evolutionary development takes thousands of years. Who will you claim has more insight than a Gallileo? A Newton? An Einstein? Do your computers? No. Good luck. I have no religious faiths, especially not "computerism".

Guest


Guest
rosco 357 wrote:oh heck my kids will never be smarter than me, lol, but my point, and i will take a different road than schools and such. without computers, and the technology, that goes hand in hand with them. well as i read that is the main way we won the cold war. we out tech ed the ussr, they could not keep up tech wise, and went broke, trying, many nations now are closing in tech wise, this worries me, so we never need to stop any form of technology be it a more powerful computer to a new and better puter guided weapon systems, thank goodness we have ppl smart enough to build these great machines, and i pray we stay one step ahead on technology, we have enough ppl that cover different parts of learning, historians and scholars,,we even have enough global warming ppl... there is room for ppl that depend on computers and ppl that make them more powerful as to advance our cause of security, its in every thing we do, and it makes life easier. and for us safer, but we must never let our technology guard down. as Satchel Page said, " dont look back something may be gaining on u" but i never ment to be saying kids dont need all the basics, but computers if used correct can enhance learning. take care,
It's funny. I never said computers weren't useful or necessary. Of course they're both. But none of the "believers" will address the simple fact that the advent of the computer in the classroom is accompanied with a drastic drop in academic performsnce. Instead, we are told that this phenomena is meaningless. That, somehow, our kids are "smarter". Smarter at what? Video games? I do all my banking on my computer and I'm grateful for it's convenience,but I know how to manage money,do math, and generally know a good deal when I see one. Young people now obviously don't. Thus their poor speculations in markets,mismanagement of funds, and inability to read and write above the 5th. grade level. Funny how a religious belief, "computerism", can delude so many.BTW, Roscoe, my first job outta school was at Avco-Lycoming. I was tasked with finishing the "TDM". (tech data manual). This 457 page book instructed inspectors on how to translate discrepencies in metal and other parts into codes that could be punched into cards. I believed in the usefulness of computers then as I do now. But that huge,room filling, IBM taught me nothing at all. It just hummed and rolled out page after page of information generated by engineers,tech writers like me,inspectors,typists,and card punchers.Computers knew nothing then as they know nothing now and were never meant to teach anyone anything.

rosco 357


Veteran
hey moon, not sure if that was to the whole group, but this is a good topic, and both are correct, i knew the answer to every question u asked, as i think the president pro tem of the senate is next in line to the presidency, but anyway,, i want our children to have great basics, i thing the brains come first and create the circuitry. but i see engineers at work , that are smart, they design jigs and ways to make things, but after the brain work , the computer programs put it to paper and code so the machine shop machines can be programed to cut what they have created, and its because the computer ran mills and lathes can cut so much faster, so production is up, we could not survive in my place of work without them, others we compete with would eat us up, but first like i said, it takes a great engineer to design what is to be made, and we have a few, and i have seen machinist tell some engineers that there is a better way to machine that part.. well anyway, i don't think anyone here thinks that basics should not come first.. basics is what was used to create what we are taking about now, take care, and still how is that dodge dakota coming,

rosco 357


Veteran
oh PS: my grandkids do not even have computers in the classroom but do have a class for computers, so i never have even thought the basics were being left behind, i know my daughter works hard into the night with helping with home work and they dont even have a computer.. maybe its not so wide spread, but i actually dont know,

Guest


Guest
rosco 357 wrote:oh PS: my grandkids do not even have computers in the classroom but do have a class for computers, so i never have even thought the basics were being left behind, i know my daughter works hard into the night with helping with home work and they dont even have a computer.. maybe its not so wide spread, but i actually dont know,
I've had the truck for 7 months now. Wow,did I find problems. Leaking tires but good tread. Fixed with inflator goo. The bed was so rusted on just the deck part, that I just scrubbed it down with a wire drill brush and covered it with indoor/outdoor carpet. I had to rewire almost the entire lighting system. I painted the bed sidewalls and put in a new seat cover. The damn thing must have been used as a lot truck,because it was incredibly filthy. But I bought it for the engine and trans which runs like new. It's my daily driver now and I keep the Miata under a cover. I've had it for 16 months now and it only has 8500 miles. I wanna keep it low mileage since it will take me almost 4 more years to pay it off. I did NOT get a good deal on it but sometimes yuz buyz something simply because you want it. I can't wait 'til this summer when I can put the top down and drive it to the beaches. If Tyler or Figi will remind me how to "frame" pic URLs so I can post them here, I will.

gypsy


Moderator
computers are definitely important, but basics are also..

do you think common sense is there, when we are born or is it learned.

I think teaching computer is a must in this day and age, but should not be relied on to solve basic classroom work..
I still don't think our kids are getting dumber.I think our teachers are not as high quality~or qualified,as they use to be..

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy wrote:computers are definitely important, but basics are also..

do you think common sense is there, when we are born or is it learned.

I think teaching computer is a must in this day and age, but should not be relied on to solve basic classroom work..
I still don't think our kids are getting dumber.I think our teachers are not as high quality~or qualified,as they use to be..

well my grandkids dont use computers, they do have an old one, but dont use it in school work and its not online, well im not sure about common sence, i would think its some about ur IQ and some is learned, in everyday things u do, u learn common sense things in trial and error,and alot ur born with, but im not sure, not to say someone with a high IQ has great common sence, maybe im wrong on that, forrest gump seemed to have common sence, lol, but that was fiction, so who knows.

rosco 357


Veteran
rosco 357 wrote:hey moon, not sure if that was to the whole group, but this is a good topic, and both are correct, i knew the answer to every question u asked, as i think the president pro tem of the senate is next in line to the presidency, but anyway,, i want our children to have great basics, i thing the brains come first and create the circuitry. but i see engineers at work , that are smart, they design jigs and ways to make things, but after the brain work , the computer programs put it to paper and code so the machine shop machines can be programed to cut what they have created, and its because the computer ran mills and lathes can cut so much faster, so production is up, we could not survive in my place of work without them, others we compete with would eat us up, but first like i said, it takes a great engineer to design what is to be made, and we have a few, and i have seen machinist tell some engineers that there is a better way to machine that part.. well anyway, i don't think anyone here thinks that basics should not come first.. basics is what was used to create what we are taking about now, take care, and still how is that dodge dakota coming,

when i said president pro tem of the senate is next inline, after reading i need to say i ment after the speaker of the house, see we could have nancy, as president ,so maybe obama is not so bad, lol,

SSC


Admin
rosco 357 wrote:oh PS: my grandkids do not even have computers in the classroom but do have a class for computers, so i never have even thought the basics were being left behind, i know my daughter works hard into the night with helping with home work and they dont even have a computer.. maybe its not so wide spread, but i actually dont know,

I have 4 computers, my 12 yr. old granddaughter has homework every night involving a computer, plus research during the day, but heaven help her if you give her an encyclopedia and tell her to look up something . She carries a 4.0 which is a straight A. The only light in the tunnel is Math is still done on paper and calculators are not allowed in the class.
The state GED program does nothing on computer, it is all written, even the final test, and once they complete it they have a diploma equal to 12 years in school, but alot more common sence.
I agree to a point Tyler made the world is run by computers now, but one storm, one blackout , one terrorist attack and poof goes access. They are very vulnerable to not only mother nature but nut jobs hacking systems, just like microsoft is dealing with now.
I learned during Katrina when ALL the cell phones went down, how easy it is to become isolated, then running generator power it is not safe to use a computer, the voltage is not steady enough and surges are prone to happen.
The world for sure is in the age of expanding technology, but good old common horse sence can never be replaced with a mechanical wizard.
The teachers of today are far more schooled than in any other generation, but you throw 30 kids in one class and the individual teaching is out the window. Without the help of parents during homework a kid will sink.

74 Computers in the classroom on Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:28 am

Guest


Guest
I must give some ground here. Our old and good friends from IYT, Horseman and bpascal, are either teachers or married to a teacher. The child to teacher ratio is getting higher and higher in most communities. Discipline is becoming an ever greater problem. Just read the news. It is easy to understand how a dedicated teacher, in his or her desparation to spread her efforts to 38 students, sees value in using a computer terminal as a substitute. Let the sharp kids work the KB while teacher concentrates on the struggling kids. Well this ain't fine and dandy. It is obviously not working. But some of the words I have read on this forum suggest we have a generation forthcoming who would see the solution to our PROVEN loss of scholastic ability can be addressed with even MORE computers. Nonsense. Higher teacher salaries won't make better teachers either (although I think performance bonuses are an excellent idea). We need smaller classes,not more computers. We need to entertain the idea of a "national service" role for graduate teachers. They should enjoy the same sign-up bonuses, health care benefits, educational advancement opportunuties. and re-up bonuses, as veterans. But they should be required to sign a binding contract. We should stop building air-conditioned jails with cable tv and state of the art gym equipment. We have plenty of tents and no-one ever died from a steady diet of baloney sandwiches and iced tea. We have two captive audiences to deal with: Kids and criminals. Which are more important? Although severely cutting the costs to confinement won't in any way pay for the many more teachers we need, we need to show a national commitment to better education. I'll go further than you SSC and say that the ever increasing dependancy on computers is in itself dangerous. People who "need" crutches like I do can't walk worth a crap and people who "need" a computer just to do simple tasks can't think worth a crap. That, as you say, is just plain common sense.

75 Nancy Pelosi on Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:43 am

Guest


Guest
I have never liked this woman. She has that same fake,forced,phony smile of an over the hill prostitute. She's also a rabid idealogue and a liar. She would issue drivers' licenses and medicaid cards to all illegal aliens and send them to state colleges for free. She actually said in an interview that Bush tried to eliminate the Social Security system to Chris Wallace, and that is a goddamn lie. Yer right Roscoe,we better hope like hell nothing happens to Obama for that reason alone.

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