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rosco 357


Veteran
Pentagon: 61 ex-Guantanamo inmates return to terrorism
Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:32pm EST



WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Pentagon said on Tuesday that 61 former detainees from its military prison camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, appear to have returned to terrorism since their release from custody.

Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said 18 former detainees are confirmed as "returning to the fight" and 43 are suspected of having done in a report issued late in December by the Defense Intelligence Agency.

Morrell declined to provide details such as the identity of the former detainees, why and where they were released or what actions they have taken since leaving U.S. custody.

"This is acts of terrorism. It could be Iraq, Afghanistan, it could be acts of terrorism around the world," he told reporters.

Morrell said the latest figures, current through December 24, showed an 11 percent recidivism rate, up from 7 percent in a March 2008 report that counted 37 former detainees as suspected or confirmed active militants.

Rights advocates said the lack of details should call the Pentagon's assertions into question.

"Until enough information is provided to allow the press and the public to verify these claims, they need to be viewed with a healthy degree of skepticism," said Jennifer Daskal, a Washington-based lawyer for Human Rights Watch.

Rights advocates contend that many Guantanamo detainees have never taken up arms against the United States and say the Defense Department in the past has described former detainees as rejoining "the fight" because they spoke out against the U.S. government.

"The Defense Department sees that the Guantanamo detention operation has failed and they are trying to launch another fear mongering campaign to justify the indefinite detention of detainees there," said Jamil Dakwar, human rights director at the American Civil Liberties Union.

President-elect Barack Obama, who takes office next Tuesday, is expected to issue an executive order to close the Guantanamo Bay prison. Defense Secretary Robert Gates also favors shuttering Guantanamo.

But the prison is unlikely to shut until after U.S. officials settle a myriad of legal and logistic issues, including a solution on where to house its occupants.

About 255 men are still held at the U.S.-run naval base in Cuba, a symbol of aggressive interrogation methods that exposed the United States to allegations of torture.

Pentagon officials say that about 110 detainees should never be released because of the potential danger they pose to U.S. interests.

Washington has cleared 50 of the detainees for release but cannot return them to their home countries because of the risk they would be tortured or persecuted there.

The Pentagon said it considers a former detainee's return to terrorism "confirmed" when evidence shows direct involvement in terrorist activities. U.S. officials see a "suspected" terrorism links when intelligence shows a plausible link with terrorist activities.

"Propaganda does not qualify as a terrorist activity," the Pentagon said in a statement.

(Additional reporting by Andrew Gray, editing by David Alexander and David Wiessler)
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE50C5JX20090113?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

SSC


Admin
That is scary seems Obama isn't thinking ,if he wants to close the place, not that I am surprised. Hope it isn't a glimps of mistakes to come.

gypsy


Moderator
I think closing it is good, Bush admitted yesterday that he did permit torture, that is a war crime. just my opinion and most of the media and public..

rosco 357


Veteran
i read like i may have posted, Australia , and England may take some and maybe new Zealand, i would have to see bush say he approved torture, i know they approved water boarding , but i dont think that has been deemed torture.. they can just killem all for all i care, let God sort them out,

SSC


Admin
Well this part of the public thinks Git-mo should stay open and torture the living shit out of the sorry bastards. Don't really think the victims of their war crimes ( suicide bombers ect.) had much of a chance at life, especially the innocent children as you are always saying Gypsy.

rosco 357


Veteran
SSC wrote:Well this part of the public thinks Git-mo should stay open and torture the living shit out of the sorry bastards. Don't really think the victims of their war crimes ( suicide bombers ect.) had much of a chance at life, especially the innocent children as you are always saying Gypsy.

wow. dennis miller is talking about this on the show the factor, as i type , they are talking about
waterboarding is all that is not torture. but something must be done . they cant turn most of these loose, they will just kill many more innocent ppl, with roadside bombs and stapped on bombs, or help some poor person be a suicide bombers,i like dennis miller most the time,

rosco 357


Veteran
ok i have the answer, take them to Gaza and let israel find them,

gypsy


Moderator
Innocent children, people are being killed by both sides.. I think for us to torture is becoming what we are fighting~ that is not the way we should react,if we put to death people like saddam/hitler,for war crimes/torture, we should not act as they do. and should be held responsible.I think most Americans/world agree,this is only my opinon~

gypsy


Moderator
, some of those prisioners have been there for years, and have never been charged according to some gov't officials, the air corp, and cia..

rosco 357


Veteran
Commission head admits Guantanamo Bay torture
By Washington correspondent Michael Rowland

Posted 5 hours 36 minutes ago
Updated 2 hours 12 minutes ago



Video: US official admits Guantanamo Bay torture (ABC News) Related Story: 'War on terror' misleading and mistaken: UK The woman in charge of the Guantanamo Bay military commissions says a high-profile detainee was tortured by the US military.

Susan Crawford, a retired judge who for the last two years has decided who stands trial at Guantanamo Bay, has spoken out about the treatment of Saudi national Muhammed al-Qahtani.

Ms Crawford says tactics used in his interrogation - which included sleep deprivation, sustained isolation and being led into a room on a dog's leash - amounted to torture.

She says the treatment was abusive and uncalled for and it is why she dropped war crimes charges against him in May last year.

Qahtani is accused of planning to take part in the September 11 terrorist attacks.

US President George Bush has repeatedly denied the US tortures people

gypsy


Moderator
I disagree! In a news story yesterday, those sleep deprivations,water boarding,humiliating ,with the dog leash, is torture, and Bush admitted he signed for the procedures~and as i said they are committing acts, we are suppose to be fighting against, you cannot fight wrong, with wrong... again my opinion~and the public

again some of these prisoners have been detained with no.charges, just suspicion,no trail,or formal charges..

gypsy


Moderator
I think what Rosco put,
in part in his post,says it in a nutshell

Until enough information is provided to allow the press and the public to verify these claims, they need to be viewed with a healthy degree of skepticism," said Jennifer Daskal, a Washington-based lawyer for Human Rights Watch.

Rights advocates contend that many Guantanamo detainees have never taken up arms against the United States and say the Defense Department in the past has described former detainees as rejoining "the fight" because they spoke out against the U.S. government.

"The Defense Department sees that the Guantanamo detention operation has failed and they are trying to launch another fear mongering campaign to justify the indefinite detention of detainees there," said Jamil Dakwar, human rights director at the American Civil Liberties Union.

gypsy


Moderator
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/LawPolitics/Story?id=4635175&page=1




Home > The Law
Bush Aware of Advisers' Interrogation Talks
President Says He Knew His Senior Advisers Discussed Tough Interrogation Methods
By JAN CRAWFORD GREENBURG, HOWARD L. ROSENBERG and ARIANE de VOGUE
April 11, 2008


President Bush says he knew his top national security advisers discussed and approved specific details about how high-value al Qaeda suspects would be interrogated by the Central Intelligence Agency, according to an exclusive interview with ABC News Friday.
Bush / Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
(ABC News Photo Illustration)

"Well, we started to connect the dots in order to protect the American people." Bush told ABC News White House correspondent Martha Raddatz. "And yes, I'm aware our national security team met on this issue. And I approved."

As first reported by ABC News Wednesday, the most senior Bush administration officials repeatedly discussed and approved specific details of exactly how high-value al Qaeda suspects would be interrogated by the CIA.

The high-level discussions about these "enhanced interrogation techniques" were so detailed, these sources said, some of the interrogation sessions were almost choreographed -- down to the number of times CIA agents could use a specific tactic.

These top advisers signed off on how the CIA would interrogate top al Qaeda suspects -- whether they would be slapped, pushed, deprived of sleep or subjected to simulated drowning, called waterboarding, sources told ABC news.
Related
EXCLUSIVE: Bush Says Petraeus' Timeline for Troop Drawdown Not Open-Ended
Sources: 'Principals' OK'd Harsh Tactics
Classified Detainee Memos at Center of Legal War

The advisers were members of the National Security Council's Principals Committee, a select group of senior officials who met frequently to advise President Bush on issues of national security policy.

At the time, the Principals Committee included Vice President Dick Cheney, former National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Colin Powell, as well as CIA Director George Tenet and Attorney General John Ashcroft.

As the national security adviser, Rice chaired the meetings, which took place in the White House Situation Room and were typically attended by most of the principals or their deputies.

The so-called Principals who participated in the meetings also approved the use of "combined" interrogation techniques -- using different techniques during interrogations instead of using one method at a time -- on terrorist suspects who proved difficult to break, sources said.

Contacted by ABC News, spokesmen for Tenet and Rumsfeld declined to comment about the interrogation program or their private discussions in Principals meetings. The White House also declined comment on behalf of Rice and Cheney. Ashcroft could not be reached.

ABC News' Diane Sawyer sat down with Powell this week for a previously scheduled interview and asked him about the ABC News report.

Powell said that he didn't have "sufficient memory recall" about the meetings and that he had participated in "many meetings on how to deal with detainees.

runawayhorses


Owner
rosco 357 wrote:wow. dennis miller is talking about this on the show the factor, as i type , they are talking about
waterboarding is all that is not torture. but something must be done . they cant turn most of these loose, they will just kill many more innocent ppl, with roadside bombs and stapped on bombs, or help some poor person be a suicide bombers,i like dennis miller most the time,

Dennis Miller - Real Free Speech: Torture Techniques (H&C)


runawayhorses


Owner
rosco 357 wrote:


My response:

Guest


Guest
gypsy wrote:I think closing it is good, Bush admitted yesterday that he did permit torture, that is a war crime. just my opinion and most of the media and public..
It amazes me how the bashers like you can't stop worrying this old bone. What will you do when Bush fades from memory? Bush didn't commit any "war crimes" you dumbass nor does the public think so. What the media thinks is colored by their syncophatic,blow-jobbery love of everything Obama. . And that is MY opinion.

gypsy


Moderator
really? that is good your entitled to your opinion Laughing name calling~is very mature~not

SSC


Admin
As a functioning part of the public I still feel these prisoners are right where they should be and receiving their just rewards. Do we dare turn them loose..hellllllllllllllll no..either feed them to the sharks or put a bullet in their heads

runawayhorses


Owner
The media's news is often times 'created' by people who are only interested in ratings, they are, for lack of a better word, "populist" that thrive on selling stories to people telling them what they want to hear and believe, they are notorious for "sycophantic brown nosing jobs" if and when it serves their purpose, which is almost always, and always money related, and they thank you for buying their publications, I'm sure. They will jump on any bandwagon that is most popular at that time, and will trash anyone to turn a buck, and that's the facts jack.

I have come to the realization that I cannot allow the media to influence my thoughts about someone to the extreme that I start thinking about it as factual (whatever the subject may be), and some issues, I need to rationalize it myself using substantiated facts. I'm not always successful, but I try like hell to weed out the media whenever possible and not let them paint me a picture of what the "popular opinion" is, I like to draw my own conclusions.

My conclusion about Bush is, he did not commit or perpetrate any war crimes, he only did what he felt was the best thing to do, good or bad they were decisions made by a persons who's intentions were to better our nation. That of course is debatable, but a conclusion I have drawn despite the media.

gypsy


Moderator
Tyler, that is a good point,and procedure.. let me rephrase my point, since he (Bush) is the leader of our country ,all responsibilities fall on him to a degree, not 100% maybe,but he should have never agreed to water boarding or any form of torture,to interrogate, yes.

My point is we reduce our selves to the enemies level when we use tactics they use~
I think if they are guilty ,the detainees, then but them to death if not free them back to their country whatever happens to them is their responsibility,as long as we don't allow them into our country.
as far as the Media, I can only believe a small percentage of what they report or say. but with all the people I have talked to and the unpopular thought they have of Bush is very large..

We can converse and debate , I believe with out others calling names, I may not be the smartest, but I am certainly not a dumb ass

SSC


Admin
I agree with Tyler, the media exploits a situation , Gypsy do you really think Git-mo is the only place where prisoners are subjected to the rigors of interrogation ? The means applied to these scum are to save countless lives in the future at what ever cost. If you read the original article in this thread you will see the very reason they must be detained. If let go they will return to terrorist activities and who knows what the next US target might be. I don't feel publisizing activities of security based facilities should be public knowledge. Duties have been assigned for the purpose of national security, let them be carried out without the bleeding heart rose colored glasses wearing do gooders. If Obama doesn't opt to move them and makes the terrible mistake of releasing them, then he surely has signed many death warrants for the innocents they will continue to kill.

gypsy


Moderator
SSC, I am not against interrogation, its the torture I object to,
I also know there are other prison camps~yes i read the article, as I see it just another media write up` we have to decide what to believe.. and we all have different thoughts on this subject.we have to decide what is right,and wrong~
I read an article today that there are lots of people in politics,armed services that could be prosecuted for war crimes....for this war,and there is no statue of limitations.
I think if the prisoners are guilty after trying them then they should be put to death.. it has also been stated and investigated there are lots of innocents also` in these camps.. my opinion is there should have not been a war and it was all handled wrong~very many mistakes..to late to say it should have never happened..
the only good I see from the war, is women not being abused in that country, and the children being educated and a better life..if they don't revert back to age old ways after we leave..

we have always been considered the good guys now the world looks at us differently, I think it will take a long time to gain back our standards and be considered the hero again from other countries/nations~

rosco 357


Veteran
i think the dennis miller vidio sums up my feeling, all i know is they cant be turned loose, thats why other countrys will be taking them, i think they are working on.. Israel does not seem to worry about how the world views things they do, they are more worried about self preservation.. but they live it everyday, we seem to forget things that happen to us. i have no pity on anyone at gitmo, and i care not what the world thinks, take care..

gypsy


Moderator
what will the other countries who take them do? imprison them? if they do what guarantee that they won't sit free again? and as i sad a lot of the people held there haven't even been charged~

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy wrote:what will the other countries who take them do? imprison them? if they do what guarantee that they won't sit free again? and as i sad a lot of the people held there haven't even been charged~

well i dont care , even if they are innocent they know someone that not, i just dont care ,, all i know is england i think and ausrtralia may take some or most,and another country, i know its a tough call, but if turned loose they will just kill again, but that maybe whats about to happen, we shall see, anyway whatever,

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