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1 The myths that wouldn't go away on Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:50 am

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081103/ap_on_el_pr/fact_check_campaign_s_most_wanted

The myths that wouldn't go away
By CALVIN WOODWARD, Associated Press Writer Calvin Woodward, Associated Press Writer Mon Nov 3, 5:04 pm ET


WASHINGTON Americans who tuned in to the last round of John McCain and Barack Obama campaign rallies will be voting Tuesday with some false notes ringing in their ears along with the hurrahs.

McCain and running mate Sarah Palin, right down to the wire, persisted in distortions that were discredited long ago. Obama, who has been more responsive lately to being called out on his misstatements, did a rhetorical dance that avoided some of the bogus claims of the past. Even so, not all of his words bore up to scrutiny.

Altogether, facts took a beating in the campaign. McCain and Obama produced enduring myths that their running mates and supporters amplified and distorted even more. When a non-licensed plumber who owes back taxes and would get a tax cut under Obama is held out by McCain as a stand-in for average working people who should vote Republican, you know truth-telling took a back seat to myth-making.

On Monday, McCain gave a final airing to unsupported statements and half-baked truths at rallies such as one in Tampa, Fla., where he said:

_"My friends, if I'm elected president, I won't spend nearly a trillion dollars more of your money. Sen. Obama will."

THE FACTS: McCain's health care plan alone is estimated to cost $1.3 trillion over 10 years by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, which also estimates that McCain's tax cuts and spending programs would drive up the national debt by $5 trillion in a decade.

_"We're not going spend $750 billion of your money just bailing out the Wall Street banker and broker who got us into this mess. Sen. Obama will. I'm going to make sure we take care of the working people who were devastated by the excesses of Wall Street and Washington."

THE FACTS: McCain supported the financial bailout, even suspending his campaign to work for passage of the failed $700 billion version that was geared even less toward families than the version that passed also with his vote. Obama backed the bailout, too. Both added more relief for families in their own platforms.

_"We're going stop sending $700 billion to buy oil from countries that don't like us very much."
THE FACTS: A wildly inflated figure that McCain kept using after it was refuted.

_Palin told two tall tales almost in the same breath in her final rallies. In Jefferson City, Mo., she declared about Obama: "He voted 94 times for higher taxes, even on hardworking, middle-class Americans making just $42,000 a year."

THE FACTS: This highly misleading if not fictional count includes times when Obama voted to cut taxes for the middle class that's cut, not raise while increasing them on the rich. An analysis by FactCheck.org found that 23 of the votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all, seven were for measures that would have lowered taxes for many, 11 would have increased taxes on only those making more than $1 million a year. Her count also includes repetitive votes for the same measure.

Palin's claim that Obama voted for higher taxes on workers making as little as $42,000 is also off the mark. Obama voted for a nonbinding budget resolution that assumed certain Bush tax cuts would expire on schedule. Translated into tax law, that could mean $15 more in taxes for an individual making $42,000, says FactCheck.org. But there has been no move to put such higher rates into law. In any event, Obama proposes tax cuts for most people earning less than $200,000 and no increases for those taxpayers.

Obama's remarks at a rally in Jacksonville, Fla., also twisted some facts and omitted important details:
_"If you make less than $250,000 a year, your taxes will not increase one single dime. Not your income tax. Not your payroll tax. Not your capital gains tax. "

THE FACTS: Not quite. Individual taxpayers making over $200,000 would see tax increases under his plan, along with those who report joint income over $250,000.

"I'm going to go through the federal budget line by line, ending programs we don't need. "
THE FACTS: Obama has been unable or unwilling to identify programs he would cut. Instead, he offers this pain-free prescription. Obama did identify a specific savings early on, proposing to delay certain NASA missions to help pay for his education plan. Then he reversed himself. NASA spending is important to Florida, a state important to him Tuesday. He'd save billions by withdrawing troops from Iraq but plans to augment forces in Afghanistan.

_"He's been a sidekick to George W. Bush, voting for the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy that he once said were irresponsible." "This out-of-touch, on-your-own economic philosophy that says you should give $700,000 tax cuts to the average Fortune 500 CEO, $300 billion to the same Wall Street banks that got us into this mess. A philosophy that says we shouldn't give a penny of relief to more than 100 million middle-class Americans."

THE FACTS: Obama also supported bailing out institutions "that got us into this mess." The Bush-McCain "philosophy" he's criticizing has not denied "a penny of relief" to middle-income Americans. Bush's first-term tax cuts were across the board, of most dollar value to the wealthy but spread among all taxed incomes, and Obama plans to continue them for all but the richest when the cuts are due to expire. Moreover, the government sent tax-rebate checks this year to all taxpayers except the wealthy and those earning less than $3,000.

_"If you already have health insurance, the only thing that will change under my plan is that we're going to lower your premiums. "

THE FACTS: At least in these remarks, Obama hewed closer to reality by leaving out one of the most notoriously unsupported figures in his campaign-long pitch that his plan will lower family health care costs by $2,500. His plan does not lower premiums by a set amount but rather envisions savings being passed on to the consumer over time as efficiencies from information technology and preventive care are realized.

Such last-minute claims capped a campaign in which the truth was often stretched to the breaking point.
Months ago, Obama saddled McCain with a bum rap when he accused the Republican of wanting a 100-year war in Iraq back in the spring. Finally he relented and said McCain sees U.S. troops being in Iraq for 100 years. That's closer to right as a peacekeeping force like the one in South Korea. But McCain might be long associated with war without end.

Obama accused McCain of wanting to privatize Social Security, which he doesn't. Now he accuses McCain of wanting to privatize "part" of Social Security, which he does, as one option that younger workers could choose.
For his part, McCain blithely carried on with a variety of discredited claims, abetted by a running mate whose exuberance was not at all dimmed by contrary evidence.

Some of the classics:
HEALTH CARE HORRORS
It only took McCain and Palin a few words to bend Obama's health care plan out of recognition.
McCain told supporters he "won't fine small businesses and families with children, as Sen. Obama proposes, to force them into a new, huge, government-run health care program, while I keep the cost of the fine a secret until I hit you with it."

Palin talks about Obama's "universal government-run program" and adds: "I don't think it's going to be real pleasing for Americans to consider health care being taken over by the Feds."

Obama's plan doesn't fine small businesses. It doesn't force families with children, or anyone, into government-run health care. And the Feds wouldn't be taking over the system.

McCain's health plan was distorted, in turn, by Obama.
"Your health care benefits will get taxed for the first time in history," Obama warned voters in attacking it. He often leads voters to think that's the full story. Hardly.
McCain, in exchange for proposing to tax the value of health benefits provided by employers, would offer a tax credit to help people buy insurance. That tax benefit $5,000 for a family gives people much more than the new taxation takes away.
___
THAT BRIDGE
When Palin ran for governor, she indicated her support for a proposal to build a nearly $400 million bridge from Ketchikan, Alaska, to an island with 50 residents and an airport. She was, at times, wishy-washy about it.
But that doesn't make for a compelling line against government waste on the stump.

So her stance became: "I told the Congress 'thanks, but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere." And a campaign ad declared she "stopped the Bridge to Nowhere."

Actually, during her campaign for governor, she vowed to defend Southeast Alaska "when proposals are on the table like the bridge, and not allow the spinmeisters to turn this project or any other into something that's so negative." At the time, the chief "spinmeister" against the project was McCain.

As governor, she abandoned the bridge after Washington pulled the money from it, letting the federal dollars be used for other projects in the state.

In September, her transportation department completed a $25 million gravel road to nowhere. Officials went ahead with the road, which would have led to the bridge, even though it has no purpose other than for foot races, hunting vehicles and possible future development.
___
GUILT BY ASSOCIATION
William Ayers, a University of Illinois education professor and former member of the radical Weather Underground, was front and center in Republican claims that Obama was "palling around with terrorists," as Palin put it. Ayers had a meet-the-candidate event in his home for Obama early in the Democrat's political career. The two served on the board of the Woods Fund. And they live in the same Chicago neighborhood.

McCain and Palin stretched the extent of that relationship to link Obama with shadowy figures.

Beyond that, they falsely implied that Ayers used the occasion of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks to wish even greater harm.
"We don't care about an old washed-up terrorist and his wife, who still, at least on Sept. 11, 2001, said he still wanted to bomb more," McCain told a rally.

This distortion originated in Hillary Rodham Clinton's play book during the primaries, when she criticized Obama for the same relationship.

Ayers, Clinton said, made comments "which were deeply hurtful to people in New York and, I would hope, to every American, because they were published on 9/11, and he said that he was just sorry they hadn't done more."

By coincidence, The New York Times published a story on the day of the attacks about Ayers and what he called his fictionalized memoirs. The story was based on an interview he had done earlier, in Chicago, in which he declared, "I don't regret setting bombs," and "I feel we didn't do enough," even while seeming to dissociate himself coyly from the group's most destructive acts.

Late in the campaign, McCain and Palin criticized Obama for attending a 2003 party for Rashid Khalidi, a Palestinian-American professor and critic of Israel. But McCain is also linked Khalidi. The professor was a founder of the Center for Palestine Research and Studies, which received $448,000 from an organization McCain chairs.
___
FUZZY NUMBERS
_$4 billion: "John, you want to give oil companies another $4 billion" in tax breaks, Obama told McCain in a debate.
In fact, McCain supports a cut in income taxes for all corporations, and doesn't single out any one industry for that benefit.
_$882 billion: "Sen. McCain would pay for part of his plan by making drastic cuts in Medicare $882 billion worth," Obama said. Obama ads claim McCain would cut benefits by 22 percent.

McCain's plan proposes neither. He wants to save money the same way Obama wants to by making programs such as Medicare more efficient.

Obama's claim misrepresents what a McCain adviser said in a Wall Street Journal story and adds distorted analysis from a partisan think tank to come up with something that goes against what McCain says he would do protect promised benefits from being cut.

2 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:28 am

rosco 357


Veteran
i said when this thing first started, its the weakest group of candidates i have seen in an election, and i stand by that, as ALWAYS< on any program or bill the devil is in the details. and those we have not gotten, it take a long time to study a bill , like this posts seemed to say, the stump speaches played fast and loose with the facts, maybe all were not lies but not all the truth was told, from both, now on joe the plumber he said on tv he worked under his bosses licence, and was doing whatever, studying or will be taking a test for i think a master plumbers licence, and start his own business, as he seemed to infer from his question to obama, so i dont have a problem with him, i wish him well, and hope the publisity will no hurt his business.. i never believed just by shear this cant be right obama was going to raise taxes on ppl making 42 thousand, obama scares me. im not afraid of government health care, medicare seems to work fairly well, i dont understand macains, as i have not heard or sought out the details, of he willl tax as was tryed years ago, the amount ur employer pays for ur healthcare as income so it will be taxed, maccain said ppl would get a 5000 bucks to buy isurance, well i never did know if that was ppl that could not get on a health plan at work , as i have a health plan for 23 bucks twice a month, blue cross, and a good policy, would i get the 5000, i know i could have studied it somewhere, maybe, the details of both are missing, or i did not do my home work, one, or the other,i am fearful of obama national security, i mean really scared, is my largest fear from him, we will see, take care

3 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:38 am

SSC


Admin
With Obama we will have no national security , nor 25% of our military , nor jobs for coal miners, nor guns in our homes , nor a president with any justifiable experience, nor one who ever fought for his country. We will be left with a man with a shady past who will do more harm than good to this country.

4 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:10 am

rosco 357


Veteran
our state has a good coal industry, it use to be much larger, but lots of strip mining goes on, and as i have posted, after they finish, the land is reclaimed however the owner wants it, ofcourse top soil, adn the coal co will even build ponds for u, hey raise catfish, my uncles farm did that, and the coal co will plant teh land with grass or pine trees, actually after its over, the land looks better than before, but underground mining, as i live close to where some were, is dieing out, i think they can bring it in cheeper from south american .,but im not positive on that ,, but alabama power uses coal,, for the steam plants, and hydro power like on the lake im on, but many times they cant release much water out the dam, as like in a drought, but hydro is cheaper than coal, but many old ppl have made a good living in the underground coal industry here, that is going away, not sure if we have to much sulfur or what, take care

5 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:23 am

SSC


Admin
No one will be using coal if Obama gets his way, his own words are he will bankrupt a company using coal with regulations , and he is also against off shore drilling. So with him we still depend on overseas oil, not our own.

6 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:11 am

Guest


Guest
rosco 357 wrote:i said when this thing first started, its the weakest group of candidates i have seen in an election, and i stand by that, as ALWAYS< on any program or bill the devil is in the details. and those we have not gotten, it take a long time to study a bill , like this posts seemed to say, the stump speaches played fast and loose with the facts, maybe all were not lies but not all the truth was told, from both, now on joe the plumber he said on tv he worked under his bosses licence, and was doing whatever, studying or will be taking a test for i think a master plumbers licence, and start his own business, as he seemed to infer from his question to obama, so i dont have a problem with him, i wish him well, and hope the publisity will no hurt his business.. i never believed just by shear this cant be right obama was going to raise taxes on ppl making 42 thousand, obama scares me. im not afraid of government health care, medicare seems to work fairly well, i dont understand macains, as i have not heard or sought out the details, of he willl tax as was tryed years ago, the amount ur employer pays for ur healthcare as income so it will be taxed, maccain said ppl would get a 5000 bucks to buy isurance, well i never did know if that was ppl that could not get on a health plan at work , as i have a health plan for 23 bucks twice a month, blue cross, and a good policy, would i get the 5000, i know i could have studied it somewhere, maybe, the details of both are missing, or i did not do my home work, one, or the other,i am fearful of obama national security, i mean really scared, is my largest fear from him, we will see, take care


My sentiments exactly. There is no enchanted choice. Gut feelings work as well as thinking about it. But, people seem to be clinging to party affiliations. It makes it difficult for people see anything positive about the opposition. That could be a big mistake in my opinion. I really appreciate the fact that I am an independent.

Someone will correct me if I am mistaken on this, but McCain will use the allowance for insurance as taxable income. I don't think those with insurance through an employer will benefit from either plan. I could be wrong on that, but just like you, it is hard to understand the devil in details of McCain or Obama's plan. Obama is not speaking of socialized medicine as I understand it. The government will not be managing our health care system. Just another fear factor thrown in for scrutinizing.

McCain's hot head bothers some of us. I have watched videos of him recorded for several years and he has a problem with being disagreed with. I guess it comes from being a POW, so the less said the better. It appears to me that America needs a slower, calmer head not to mention the intellect to keep any possible communications open when the lives of other's can be effective by impulsive actions. It would follow that Obama's coolness bothers some Americans, but he is intelligent and that is much needed in government. Even with that going for him, he has a lot to learn.

Taxes, taxes, taxes....that debate is endless. I wish we had a flat tax rate, but that takes some studying to appreciate the possible benefits of a simple and straight across the board rate. But, hell no ! Those we bailed out would go nuts if expected to give up their bonuses while investors lose everything. Huh?

I am not worried about the defense of the United States with Obama any more than if McCain is elected president. Our defense will be foremost with either man, but better guarded with someone not so eager to show force UNLESS absolutely necessary. McCain commented something to the effect that sending troops should be the last resort and that is comforting to those of us who have a kid in the military.

All in all, I think both men love the United States enough to try to do the right thing for the majority its citizens. There will always be the disgruntled among us. Some people cannot be pleased no matter what.

If the government (elected officials) can regain the respect of the people, we can pull out of just about anything.

Tomorrow is the day............America is choosing a new president.........we all need to wish him good luck in hacking through the mess that is being left behind. (FLASH: If Sadam had not threatened to assinate Papa Bush, we would have NEVER gone to Iraq.)

Good night! Don't forget to vote!

7 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:30 pm

rosco 357


Veteran
i have never been for a flat tax, it sounds good, but from what i have learned i would have to pay more, while the rich would pay less, ppl say 10 percent, but as i learned it would have to be much more than that, devil in he details, but with obama that would not be an issue, but i am for doing away with the income tax, and go to a consumtion tax , which is kinda a sales tax, but everything transactions between companies and things purchased, , this was when i first read on it ronald reagan put it out there, so many ppl now and small business do not pay taxes at all, they deal in cash only, the consumtion tax would do away with a businesss hiding business by cash only, i will admit im at fault, i bought a new cental air from a real well known company, and i had one price and a cash only price, so i would not have to pay sales tax,and a good price, and he would not have to count it a business trasaction, well i paid cash, so im at fault, but this goes on all the time, , ppl work for cash so no income tax, ,, there may be a way around a consumption tax, but at the time, ronald reagan, said if he could harness the underground economy, (ppl not showing bussiness by using cash only) there would not be a deficit,

8 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:45 pm

gypsy


Moderator
I agree in part with Figi's post,,and in part with Rosco's.. but the key factor is the breakdown, who benefits more, the people with Obama, or the big oil corps/business with McCain?

I see, that we the people benefit with Obama, even if some demographics are simiar to Bush/Mccain~~ the strongest *FOR THE PEOPLE* is Obama~

9 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:13 am

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy wrote:I agree in part with Figi's post,,and in part with Rosco's.. but the key factor is the breakdown, who benefits more, the people with Obama, or the big oil corps/business with McCain?

I see, that we the people benefit with Obama, even if some demographics are simiar to Bush/Mccain~~ the strongest *FOR THE PEOPLE* is Obama~

well im just talking, obama will win, palin put a tax on the oil industry, on shoot i forget what u call it, when u make alot of money u usually dont make, she put it on the oil industry, and besides the check all alaskans get for the oil in alaska, they also got a 1200 buck check for the extra money the oil companies made in the rise in prices, but im just talking , on a national scale i think that would be over her head, i think she will go back and make a good gov, for alaska, as she seemed to have been she had like a 80 percent approval rating as a govenor,and u bet her hubby will be happy to be back home,, and heck i never knew why macain was running, they are worth well over 100 million bucks and have 15 million trust funds for each kids, and 7 or 8 houses and condos, 2 condos in a plush part of san diego, one for the kids and one for the macains john and his wife, if i was him i would have the fastest cigar boat on the coast and enjoy toys and life, big boy toys, ,, i feel for him , because he has given so much for our country, all those years in prison, all those times his shoulders were jerked out of joint that now he cant raise his arms but so far,, it just does not seem to me obama has paid his dues to be president, but i hope im surprised, he will deal with congress adn im telling u lots of states have coal so maybe they will set him straight on what he can do with coal ,he is not a king, and all those coal states which we are one, have senators, and partys go out the window when a congressman adn senator has to take care of their state, so he has alot to learn, and as been said lots of campaigning talk never follows through when once in office..

10 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:51 am

gypsy


Moderator
umm,, sorry Rosco I don't understand ?
how did Palin put a tax on the oil industry?? Did I misunderstand your post ?I don't understand..

as far as I can concern,, Palin benefited more, than Alaska people did, with all her proposal fighting the good ole boys.. explain please?

I have read a lot on this issue,and one point is repeated, don't Cross Mis Palin!!

11 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:21 am

SSC


Admin
Your last sentence is a key point, now the political bullshit will be over , lets hope he doesn't wreck the working people, if he pushes the healthcare I am sunk. Now lets see what gas prices do..bet they start to climb. Oh well the Dems have spoken but right now 37,000,000 + americans do not agree, so our country is forever divided. With my freedom of speech still intact for now all I can say is I despise the man and have no respect nor will I have any for him.

12 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:28 am

gypsy


Moderator
never mind, Rosco,we will just have to wait and see..

I will, engage, that this all will be for the better.. I will brace for the bashing../LOL

we can handle it, if not ,what we hope for, we will be silent

13 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:34 am

gypsy


Moderator
Like I said, America was/is sick, now for the healing

14 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:43 am

gypsy


Moderator
SSC stated we are forever divided.. Why? we should constantly be for one another!!
yes!
for our country!! so how do we do this??

we are divided~ two parties~~ true?? How do we do this? UNITED!!

15 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:31 am

SSC


Admin
There will be no healing, only plans in 4 years to undo the travesty of tonight.

16 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:37 am

gypsy


Moderator
what travesty,, the past?? another game?

17 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:31 pm

SSC


Admin
The travesty of this bullshit election, and this is no game. My life my future and my job just went down the tubes along with your states coal industry my states oil industry, as neither state supported Obama.
Time will tell if he sticks to his promises . We have 4 years to sweat this out now.

18 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:08 am

rosco 357


Veteran
gypsy wrote:umm,, sorry Rosco I don't understand ?
how did Palin put a tax on the oil industry?? Did I misunderstand your post ?I don't understand..

as far as I can concern,, Palin benefited more, than Alaska people did, with all her proposal fighting the good ole boys.. explain please?

I have read a lot on this issue,and one point is repeated, don't Cross Mis Palin!!

this is easy and was something stated she did right from her being choosen for vp,,, as u know ppl in alaska get a check because of the oil from their state, well when oil went real high , she and the legislature in alaska passed a law, and now i remember what its called, she and the legislature passed a oil company windfall profit tax, so each person or family im not sure, got a new 1200 buck check from the windfall money the oil companies made when oil went up,besides the check they always have gotten for years. this was one of teh first thing that was said, i think even in her speach,., no i think she is tough, i would not cross her, she is not scared to take on the big boys, but she is alaskas govenor, and has somewhere close to an 80 percent approval rating with the pll of alaska, she beat an incumbent to win the govenorship, and i imagine when she is up for reelction she will cruise back in easy,but this is a non issue, this is alaskas business, and she also after other govenors could not get nothing going, i think she did it in 20 days got the big pipeline going from alaska north slope, thru canada for natural gas,to the lower 48 .. oh and last nite it was posted she was cleared on the troopergate think , this guy was a slimball anyways, i did not post the article since the election outcome was known, take care

19 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:45 am

rosco 357


Veteran
SSC wrote:The travesty of this bullshit election, and this is no game. My life my future and my job just went down the tubes along with your states coal industry my states oil industry, as neither state supported Obama.
Time will tell if he sticks to his promises . We have 4 years to sweat this out now.
hey , i dont know all of it, but congress will have a lot to do with it,, the senate as of now has enough republican senators to hold up a bill , the dems cant bring a vote to closure, so the dems will have to do some barganing with the republicans to bring a vote to closure, which u know is stop a filibuster, i think the only thing that cant be filibustered is the budget,.. and as u said the popular vote was not that far apart, so half the country almost is not behind him, u cant go by the electorial vote, it actually means nothing since california and new york, did it for him, which he always had, but the main thing as i think even nancy pelosi said is the economy, if this is not fixed which will take a good long while, nothing really can be done..there will be fighting amoung dems vs dems for chairmanships, i think someone is challeging John connors ,,none of the south was behind him he lost most southern states, like 65 to 35 and there abouts, except for tylers florida, and it has so many ppl from all over, its not like the old south,,it will be interesting to see who is chosen for all the cabinet positions, and if ron emanueal is chief of staff, im more worried about jobs right now, than obama, he will not have an money to work with, he has a mess on his hands, take care.. i read an article, that with hillary and macain, obama mainly just had a lots more money to win the election, is basically how he did it,

20 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:03 am

SSC


Admin
Well what is done is done, anxious to see how many big campaign promises he will keep, the media was commenting on Palin should be Sec. of Energy since he vowed to cross party lines in his cabinet. I know I am sick of the whole mess...

21 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:25 am

runawayhorses


Owner
I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate Gypsy on receiving her wish that Barack Obama become the next president of these United States. I would also like to remind her that if anything goes wrong we can now address our blame towards her and others like her, for it is THEM that put Barack Obama into office.

With that admission out of the way, permit me to continue.

I do not like the current administration. In fact, I have no love for Republicans in general, and the fools who have put them into office. The Party is controlled by greedy, shortsighted, and uncaring bastards. This is not typical partisan vitriol, it is the undeniable truth.

Health Care still sucks in this country.

22 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:29 pm

gypsy


Moderator
haha, Thanks Tyler, I think LOL

I will take the heat if that happens

I personally think he will be a Great President, he has nothing to lose, and he has a lot to prove, so he will work hard to accomplish that.
it is going to be rough going, but if the Republicans and the Democrats can work together this nation will emerge stronger than ever.(My Prayer)

One thing from this chaos, I hope we have realized , this (America) still belongs to "We The People" not your rich, or oil pirates.(China) practically owns us,that is something that is going to have to change..!! be fixed..
The poor, the working class, we all deserve to have a piece of the pie,it is now our turn, when that is learned then it should be smooth sailing..there will be many obstacles, but one thing we must do is try.. put the people first.

I believe with all my Soul that the best presidents(leaders) are those that have had to work and live through hard times to realize what reality is..your rich who were born with it, have no clue..


GOD BLESS AMERICA!!

23 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:23 pm

SSC


Admin
Gypsy for all our sakes I hope you are right about Obama, a little unnerving to trust a country to someone with so little experience, hopefully his cabinet will be made up of wise experienced minds. He has made some very radical promises on the campaign trail, starting with his views on abortion. Only time will tell. OPEC is sitting in the gap to raise oil prices since he is against the coal and new drilling, thus still making us dependant on foreign oil. We'll have to see how this all fares out at the pump in months to come. I am loving gas below 2.00 a gallon right now. With a total Dem. control don't see the Republicans have much of a voice in anything. That is a risky move.

24 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:41 pm

gypsy


Moderator
I, as you hope, SSCfor this to be a good transistion..

we have had rough times hit, I don't blame it on any one person,,but I do blame it on who has been in control the longest, and that is republicans,, if we do the history it shows, but we as American's and our leaders repubs/dems, will share in the failure..

I don't believe Obama will do away with coal production, he is thinking of clean coal,(again) we need to read/research/ voices will be heard.. putting restrictions on polluting our country../world is his aim,,

Yes he has promised a lot, like all politicians have,, again I say you republicans have had eight years, plus(control) house and senate total of 16+ years, Where do we stand? Good/Bad?? only one choice!! Bad!! right?

Mavericks~~ reach across!! I know, I will,, make your voice heard..

I also wish you the best in your struggle with the election, and hope your boss can see the potential~

25 Re: The myths that wouldn't go away on Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:00 pm

rosco 357


Veteran
SSC wrote:Gypsy for all our sakes I hope you are right about Obama, a little unnerving to trust a country to someone with so little experience, hopefully his cabinet will be made up of wise experienced minds. He has made some very radical promises on the campaign trail, starting with his views on abortion. Only time will tell. OPEC is sitting in the gap to raise oil prices since he is against the coal and new drilling, thus still making us dependant on foreign oil. We'll have to see how this all fares out at the pump in months to come. I am loving gas below 2.00 a gallon right now. With a total Dem. control don't see the Republicans have much of a voice in anything. That is a risky move.

amen, aint Bush great he has gas down to under 2 bucks a gallon, well opec as of now cut production a couple weeks ago or so,, but with the less use of oil world wide, it keeps going down, i kinda think obama may govern kinda like clinton but a bit more left. until the midterm elections in 2 years, if he does not make ppl happy, he as was done to clinton in the mid term election, lost the senate, and house, but it would take a lot to loose the house, but as i have said, obama, is facing the fact , he has no money to work with, but we will see, well his first mistake is his press secretary, he has great access to obama, and has a fantastic memory, the press likes him, but hell fire he is from auburn alabama, lol,, i hope bama beats the hell out of that what bear bryant called the cow college, one concern, and u know its true, same principle as the oj jury, even if obama does a pityful job, the blacks will turn out in big numbers to vote for him again, no matter what he does,,,ita just the way it is, adn yall know it, but he can do the michael jackson thing and turn white, he can do that with a white mother, he has many options, lmao,,,.. rhom emanuel is a pit bull, as chief of staff, but i dont know how he will be, with all the politics, i read obama is going with the established good ole boys, but it may be to early,, to judge, but actually i had rather him do that than use rookies, its not a time for on the job training,

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